Bethany Wilinski (Part 1) on sabbatical, burnout and choosing rest (CAL140, S8E5)
Bethany Wilinski is an associate professor of teacher education at Michigan State University and a sabbatical coach. In Part 1 of our conversation, she describes her own sabbatical experience. She talks about how earning tenure in 2022 after the pandemic, young children, and family losses left her burned out and questioning her work’s impact. Initially she planned an “expected” research sabbatical in Tanzania and applied for a competitive yearlong Fulbright, but soon felt unease about starting a major new project and disrupting family life. After seeing a colleague’s Florence sabbatical report, she reframed sabbatical as restoration and family reconnection, chose Bordeaux France for one semester, and returned reenergized and eager to reengage without resuming frenetic pace. She discusses shifting identity beyond career, setting boundaries, pausing before saying yes, focusing on finishing work, and unlearning academia’s hidden curriculum of constant striving.
00:29 Introduction
04:09 Burnout After Tenure and Initial Sabbatical Plans
09:14 Navigating Doubts After Submitting and Expectations
14:03 Post Tenure Pressure
18:18 Slowing Down For Family
24:19 A Different Sabbatical Vision
30:14 Restoration Mindset Shift and Choosing Bordeaux France
33:16 Returning Reenergized
35:59 Identity Beyond Academia
37:52 Boundaries and Saying No
41:26 Essentialism and Finishing
43:19 Hidden Curriculum Unlearning
48:37 Support Systems and Guardrails
52:09 Designing Your Sabbatical
52:33 Outro
Related Links:
Bethany’s Michigan State Uni webpage
Bethany Wilinski Sabbatical Coaching
[Book] Greg McKeown, Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less, Crown Currency 2014.
Transcript
Welcome to Changing Academic Life.
Speaker:I'm Geraldine Fitzpatrick, and this is a podcast series where academics and
Speaker:others share their stories, provide ideas, and provoke discussions about what
Speaker:we can do individually and collectively to change academic life for the better.
Speaker:I think sometimes that becomes like you're just on autopilot and you're doing it.
Speaker:Like I think I've been doing good work, but I wasn't, I was so focused on tenure
Speaker:and getting publications out and doing the next thing that I thought I needed
Speaker:to do, that I had actually never stopped to ask myself if the things I was doing
Speaker:were what I actually really wanted to do.
Speaker:Like, is this what I'm passionate about?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Is this how I want my career to take shape?
Speaker:I am curious whether you recognize yourself in this
Speaker:or whether it was just me.
Speaker:I think we can all get caught up on autopilot and on the next thing,
Speaker:and we miss the opportunities, those really important opportunities
Speaker:to pause and reflect and reset.
Speaker:I am talking here with Bethany Wilinski.
Speaker:Bethany's an associate professor of teacher education at
Speaker:Michigan State University and she's also a sabbatical coach.
Speaker:What Bethany was talking about in this clip was her wake up moment when
Speaker:she was planning her own sabbatical.
Speaker:So in part one of this conversation, Bethany describes how she started
Speaker:off with the autopilot option and then she recognized that she
Speaker:was actually really burned out.
Speaker:And needed to make some very different choices.
Speaker:This led her to reframe her sabbatical as a time for restoration and connection.
Speaker:It's such a rich conversation covering topics like shifting identity,
Speaker:setting boundaries, pausing before saying yes, focusing on finishing
Speaker:work and unlearning academia's hidden curriculum of constant striving.
Speaker:And while the particular context for Bethany's story is post-tenure sabbatical,
Speaker:I think the insights that she shares can apply equally well to all career
Speaker:stages and to all types of leave, like also parental leave and so on.
Speaker:And this is whether you are a post-doc or post-tenure, or getting into your
Speaker:later career stage where you may also be starting to question the
Speaker:shape of the rest of your career.
Speaker:So I hope you enjoy part one here.
Speaker:We'll follow up in the next episode with part two where Bethany will go on
Speaker:to share some practical tips and tricks about how you can be more intentional
Speaker:in designing your own sabbatical.
Speaker:Bethany, thank you very much for joining me and why I want to talk
Speaker:to you today is I know that you are really passionate about the idea
Speaker:of sabbaticals and that we approach sabbaticals with much more intention,
Speaker:and being intentional is a theme of this current season of the podcast.
Speaker:So it actually fits really nicely in that.
Speaker:Do you want to introduce yourself first?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:My name is Bethany Wilinski and I am an associate professor of teacher education
Speaker:at Michigan State University in the US.
Speaker:I've been in that role for actually almost 11 years Exactly now.
Speaker:I started in January, 2015, and I earned tenure in July, 2022.
Speaker:And then I took a sabbatical for a year during the academic year of 2023, 2024.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And it was that sabbatical experience that put you on this passion path?
Speaker:What happened?
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:I mean, so it actually started with the planning, which is why
Speaker:I focus on sabbatical planning in my coaching business.
Speaker:But what happened is by the time I got tenure, I was just completely burned out.
Speaker:You know, two young kids during the pandemic.
Speaker:I joke with my son that my, he's now 12 and I joke that he was a kindergarten
Speaker:dropout because the pandemic started when he was in kindergarten and school
Speaker:ended in March and we never went back.
Speaker:Yeah, so, and then my daughter was, just under two when the pandemic started.
Speaker:So we were very busy and very stressed.
Speaker:And then it felt like for people with young kids, it took, you know, multiple
Speaker:years, I think, kind of the rest of the world had gone back to normal and we were
Speaker:still dealing with school closures and daycare closures when anyone got COVID.
Speaker:So that was extremely stressful.
Speaker:And then, we had a lot of loss in our family.
Speaker:My mom got diagnosed with a terminal illness and died, you know, not too
Speaker:long after my mother-in-law unexpectedly passed away, close to my mom.
Speaker:And so, we were exhausted.
Speaker:I was exhausted, but I saw the sabbatical as like, it was a lot, it was a lot.
Speaker:But I'd always looked forward to my sabbatical.
Speaker:And so I saw it kind of there as a beacon.
Speaker:Like, this is going to save me, this is going to help me, you know, get some time
Speaker:to get my feet under me and recharge.
Speaker:And I always assumed that I would go away for my sabbatical
Speaker:because I do research in Tanzania.
Speaker:So I study early childhood education.
Speaker:I do work in the US but I also do work in Tanzania.
Speaker:And so, you know, you can imagine I have to wedge those trips to
Speaker:Tanzania in around everything else, you know, teaching and with the
Speaker:kids it's hard to get away for long.
Speaker:You were still doing travel for the research?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah, so I was traveling, I mean, with the pandemic of course I had like a
Speaker:two year break, but by the time I got tenure I think I had started going back.
Speaker:But I thought, well, sabbatical would be such a great time to spend a year
Speaker:in Tanzania working on my research.
Speaker:And so I think I automatically, when my sabbatical was coming
Speaker:up, I was very excited about it.
Speaker:But I also very quickly started planning the sabbatical.
Speaker:That was kind of the expected sabbatical, right?
Speaker:The one that would be professionally most meaningful.
Speaker:So when you say expected, where did you get the notions
Speaker:from about what's expected?
Speaker:My own head, or the way I've been socialized as an academic.
Speaker:I do, you know, my work is in the field of comparative education, and so I
Speaker:think there's something that's in the water, and I do ethnographic research.
Speaker:So being in country for an extended period of time is very important.
Speaker:And I think I had seen, you know, mentors, colleagues who went before me
Speaker:who used their sabbatical as time to have that extended period in the field.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So, so it was, and I, and I wanted to.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So a combination of both.
Speaker:Having seen other people do it and that it aligned nicely with your research approach
Speaker:and that being immersed in the culture.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I had spent, you know, the reason I do work in Tanzania is because when
Speaker:I, I, my undergraduate degree was in elementary education, and so I
Speaker:taught, my first job out of college was actually teaching in Tanzania.
Speaker:Wow.
Speaker:So I had lived there for two years.
Speaker:I met my husband there.
Speaker:So it's a special place and I, and in my current role, I'm a regular
Speaker:faculty member, but I also work on our, we have an, a sustainable
Speaker:development project in Tanzania, so I'm very much engaged in Tanzania.
Speaker:So there was also a personal pull to being, being there and having
Speaker:the opportunity to live there again.
Speaker:My husband was excited.
Speaker:We were excited about, you know, bringing our children
Speaker:there to live for a little bit.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:So that all sounds perfect.
Speaker:What happened?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I, and I thought it was, I know you're like, why would you
Speaker:not have taken that sabbatical?
Speaker:So the way I approached it, I applied for a Fulbright, which is a US
Speaker:department of State grant that allows you, you know, that would've funded
Speaker:me to go to Tanzania for a year.
Speaker:They're very competitive.
Speaker:And so I wrote a very, what I think was a very compelling application.
Speaker:I proposed this, you know, the goal is really collaboration.
Speaker:And so I had proposed a new collaboration and it was a very, you know, huge
Speaker:involved project with new collaborators.
Speaker:Not my, not the ones I had worked with already, but I thought, well,
Speaker:this will be a nice way to, you know, meet new collaborators.
Speaker:But then I'll also obviously have time with the friends and colleagues
Speaker:I current I already have, you know?
Speaker:And so almost as soon as I think I I clicked submit on that application,
Speaker:I thought, I don't know if this is actually the sabbatical that I need.
Speaker:I'm exhausted, I'm burned out.
Speaker:I have projects, so many projects in Tanzania, so much data that
Speaker:I have not already dealt with.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I'm not sure starting something new and big is actually going to serve me.
Speaker:Can I probe on what you just said there though?
Speaker:Because you said as soon as you press submit, you thought.
Speaker:Was it a thought or did it start in your body somewhere?
Speaker:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker:It probably started in my body.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Probably an uneasiness.
Speaker:I think, as you know, I always tell my clients.
Speaker:You don't need more advice from me on how to be more productive.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:If you're at the point in your career where, at least in the US if you've
Speaker:earned tenure, earned a sabbatical, you're pretty productive and highly motivated.
Speaker:Right?
Speaker:But I think sometimes that becomes like you're just on
Speaker:autopilot and you're doing it.
Speaker:Like maybe, I think I've been doing good work, but I wasn't, I was so focused
Speaker:on tenure and getting publications out and doing the next thing that I
Speaker:thought I needed to do, that I had actually never stopped to ask myself
Speaker:if the things I was doing were what I actually really wanted to do.
Speaker:Like, is this what I'm passionate about?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Is this how I want my career to take shape?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so there must have been something that I paused or I had a quiet
Speaker:moment, and this kind of feeling started creeping in like, mm. I don't
Speaker:know if this is really what I want.
Speaker:And part of it, there was a logistical piece to this.
Speaker:So my husband was an academic at the time, and he is a scientist, so he was working
Speaker:in a lab, and so he really couldn't go to Tanzania for a full year, but the
Speaker:only grant available was for a full year.
Speaker:And so there was a tension because I thought, well, I mean, in theory I could
Speaker:be in Tanzania by my, either by myself, and he would have the kids in the US or
Speaker:he would come back to the US after a time and I would be in Tanzania with the kids.
Speaker:But as I played that out in my head, I thought, that's not what I want.
Speaker:I really like spending time with my husband.
Speaker:I don't want to be, you know, the being in Tanzania is not worth upsetting
Speaker:our family dynamic in that way.
Speaker:So I think it was a combination of like really wrapping my head maybe around the
Speaker:personal side of it, but then also this.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah, I think, like you said, this maybe a feeling that, I don't know,
Speaker:I just, I really need to slow down.
Speaker:I need a break.
Speaker:I don't need this.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:This huge new project.
Speaker:It's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker:The, I don't know, the way that we can get on these treadmills, that
Speaker:just keep running faster and faster so people keep pressing the speed
Speaker:button to keep the band going faster.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's our mode, that's our mode of working and operating thinking.
Speaker:And so, you know, sabbatical is next thing on the list, tick.
Speaker:And what do we need to do to progress and advance?
Speaker:And that just stopping and thinking.
Speaker:I mean, even just sort of the stopping and thinking.
Speaker:Because I'm sure you put, well, clearly you did put a lot of
Speaker:thought into the proposal.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:But it was that intellectual thought in from the treadmill, wasn't it?
Speaker:Rather from the sounds of it in the, and doing more, gathering more.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it was kind of the, how can I put together the strongest proposal and also
Speaker:what can I do that really will benefit or make a contribution to the institution
Speaker:that I'm asking to partner with?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Because part of the, the goal of this grant, it's a, you know, in the US we
Speaker:don't have a lot of diplomacy right now.
Speaker:We're not focused on that.
Speaker:But the idea is that you are building these cross-cultural connections.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So I was thinking about my career, but it was also a very engaged project where
Speaker:I was trying to think of what are the ways that if I'm here in Tanzania, being
Speaker:hosted by an institution, that I can be most useful and beneficial in some
Speaker:way, and not just be, you know, a drag on their system or be doing something
Speaker:that's totally irrelevant to their departmental or institutional goals.
Speaker:And yet when you also talk about just being worn out and burnt out, you
Speaker:know, there's the question of when you get to stand back and look, how much
Speaker:use can you be from that position?
Speaker:Like what resources have you got left to bring?
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And I had very few.
Speaker:I mean, I had, at that time I was not reading much about burnout,
Speaker:but since I've, you know, been reading more about burnout and
Speaker:I think, the way that cynicism takes over, the way that you doubt.
Speaker:I mean, I was sitting there saying, well, I got tenure, so I have a job for life.
Speaker:I've been validated by peers.
Speaker:And I felt at that time like I wanted to quit my job, which just doesn't make
Speaker:any sense because I felt this, there's this very existential feeling like.
Speaker:Does any of this really matter?
Speaker:Like am I making an impact if I'm just publishing journal articles?
Speaker:Is that actually doing anything to improve the world or education?
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And since I work in an applied field, I feel like, you know, the reason
Speaker:I do research is because I want to make things a little better if I can
Speaker:for teachers and kids and families.
Speaker:And so I, as I look back now, I realize that sort of disengagement or just kind
Speaker:of right unfounded resentment toward maybe students who weren't doing anything wrong,
Speaker:it was just my own frustration and being, having no energy or resources left that
Speaker:was driving that cynicism and resentment.
Speaker:Do you think this is a common thing?
Speaker:Post-tenure?
Speaker:Because it feels like, especially in the US system where tenure in, in some other
Speaker:countries institutions, there is that sort of equivalent of a tenure review process,
Speaker:you know, promotion to the next step.
Speaker:But it's more, a checkpoint for everyone and a nice sort of
Speaker:validation point rather than there are only X positions and x plus Y
Speaker:people applying for these positions.
Speaker:And so it feels like, especially in the US there's much more
Speaker:pressure on that tenure process.
Speaker:I think so I think, you know, I have a good friend who was a faculty
Speaker:member in Australia and then Scotland.
Speaker:And what I learned from his process is that the US system is very
Speaker:high stakes, I think for tenure.
Speaker:So if you get denied tenure, then you have one more year at your
Speaker:institution and then you have to leave.
Speaker:You can't try again.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I do think, there's a lot of pressure.
Speaker:And then the other thing that happens, and you know, I, I really like my job
Speaker:and so this is not to throw shade at my institution or department, but when I
Speaker:was going up for tenure, the expectations were not very clear and it just felt
Speaker:like, you know, I think some institutions will say, you need this many articles
Speaker:in these types of journals, or, and, and so you know what you're aiming for.
Speaker:To me, going up for tenure felt like you just had to do more and more.
Speaker:And I think some people are in this situation where no one will kind of
Speaker:tell them when they've met the bar.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so then it does put you in this position of feeling very
Speaker:unsure whether you've ever kind of done what you're supposed to do.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And the, the cynic in me feels like sort of the, the neoliberal university
Speaker:maybe likes that a little bit.
Speaker:Happy, happy for the, it makes you more productive, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:If you're constantly striving.
Speaker:So I do, you know, the more people I meet now through my work, I
Speaker:think it is very common for people to just feel very burnt out.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:And honestly, particularly women and women who are starting families early
Speaker:in their career, I think there is a lot to balance in this constant weight of,
Speaker:you know, well I need to get another publication out, or I have to go to this
Speaker:conference in order to build my network so that my external reviewers will be
Speaker:able to write good things about me.
Speaker:You know, and there's always this like, you need to network and get
Speaker:to know people, but people can't know you that well because then they
Speaker:can't write for you for your review.
Speaker:So yeah, just a lot of grace space and a lot of, a lot of striving, I think.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And what other ways did that sense of sort of burnout worn out, play out for you?
Speaker:You talked about the students just being too much or just wondering
Speaker:what you were doing, having impact.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, I think just, I really slowed down on my research.
Speaker:I was really not very interested in, in working on my research.
Speaker:I think after I got tenure, I mean, the nice thing was that I
Speaker:felt like I could finally breathe.
Speaker:And so I think I took that next year.
Speaker:Different institutions do it differently.
Speaker:We had to, once you get tenure, you can't go on sabbatical right away.
Speaker:So I had a year where I went back and I was teaching and doing my regular work.
Speaker:You apply that fall for sabbatical, but then you don't start your sabbatical
Speaker:until the following academic year.
Speaker:And so in some ways that is really nice if, because I think I went
Speaker:back and I just, every time I had that feeling of I have to do this, I
Speaker:could stop and say, but do I have to?
Speaker:Why do I have to?
Speaker:Is this an a real expectation or is this an expectation that I've put on myself?
Speaker:And most of those were expectations I put on myself because at that point,
Speaker:if I already had tenure, I mean, I knew that I wanted to continue my research.
Speaker:I knew that I wanted to continue publishing, but there was no urgency.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so I think I spent that year, I think because I was so burned out
Speaker:and exhausted, I spent that year kind of stepping back a little bit.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And really easing up on the pace that I had been working at.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that, and that's definitely a theme I've heard from people I've
Speaker:talked to for the podcast series over the years, getting through
Speaker:tenure and just that time afterwards.
Speaker:And it sounds like it's such an important time, as you said, to breathe.
Speaker:Just to breathe.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And to just reconnect with a longer term perspective about
Speaker:what are you doing and why.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And also to give my family a break, you know?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think my, I think sometimes we underestimate the amount of,
Speaker:or the ripple effect that our own stress has on our family.
Speaker:And I know for me it's very real because my husband will always say, well,
Speaker:you're grumpy and the kids are grumpy.
Speaker:And I'm like, that's not fair.
Speaker:Why does everyone have to peg their emotions to mine?
Speaker:They need to choose someone else to, you know, to tether
Speaker:to, but, you know, so it is.
Speaker:And so I think, you know, it really, when you have an ecosystem
Speaker:of people that you're a part of, it's not just my tenure process.
Speaker:I mean, we had all been working very hard to support me through this process.
Speaker:Mm. And so it also became an opportunity to say, okay, let's kind of slow down
Speaker:the pace and also think about . You know, my husband who's followed
Speaker:me to Michigan for my job and is now figuring out his own career.
Speaker:Maybe the focus doesn't need to be on me.
Speaker:Maybe we can shift the focus and part of that for me means, you know,
Speaker:traveling a little less or saying, do I have to go to that conference?
Speaker:Or can I be here so that the caregiving, you know, the solo parenting is not
Speaker:always falling to him or, what does he maybe, does he need longer days and so
Speaker:I can be with the kids a little more.
Speaker:That sort of thing.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I, I think we're starting to get more discussion and awareness
Speaker:about how we're not superhero solo researchers off on our Grand quest,
Speaker:but we are part of an ecosystem and we build on the work of others and,
Speaker:you know, collaborate with others.
Speaker:And I don't often hear families getting included in that
Speaker:discussion of the ecosystem.
Speaker:And that's a lovely reminder that we are multiply connected and, and anything we do
Speaker:is achieved, you know, in the context of all of these different relationships with
Speaker:the different costs that are entailed.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think that, I mean, the perspectives that we've taken in my family
Speaker:is that this, having these moments where, you know, I go to Tanzania for a week or
Speaker:two for field work, those provide nice opportunities for the kids and my husband
Speaker:to have a different kind of relationship.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so we've created a family life that does not depend on.
Speaker:Me being present.
Speaker:And it shouldn't because they're his children too.
Speaker:He should be able to take care of them.
Speaker:But I think sometimes, you know, things default so much
Speaker:to mom in these situations.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, I'm fortunate that my husband has been very supportive
Speaker:of, you know, understanding that my work involves this travel.
Speaker:And he's encouraging of it.
Speaker:Because I know when he goes away I'm like, when are you coming back?
Speaker:This is, this is hard to do on my own.
Speaker:But he is always very gracious about it.
Speaker:But yeah, and I think like the kids, you know, I, my son, I always joke that
Speaker:he's my, well now he's like my business advisor because he asks me questions
Speaker:about my sabbatical coaching business.
Speaker:But before that, you know, he's very curious about the method, the methodology
Speaker:I use and kind of what I'm doing.
Speaker:And so I try to include them in those conversations so they understand,
Speaker:you know, when I'm traveling it's not because I want to get away from you
Speaker:guys, but here's the goal of that trip.
Speaker:And here's, and for me, and with Tanzania, it's really about, it's
Speaker:about research, but it's also about building relationships over time.
Speaker:And so I want to keep going back to say, I'm here with you, I'm
Speaker:learning with you, and I'm not just someone who's kind of popping in,
Speaker:collecting my data and then leaving.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So being there regularly is very important to me.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So what did you end up deciding to do with that sabbatical then?
Speaker:Oh yeah.
Speaker:We really, we really left the audience with a cliffhanger there, so.
Speaker:Your Fullbright applications in click, smile on the face,
Speaker:then a pit in the stomach and
Speaker:Yes, exactly.
Speaker:And I had also been coming up with ideas like, if I don't get the Fulbright,
Speaker:how can I go to Tanzania anyway?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And researching schools and apartments.
Speaker:So the whole thing was underway.
Speaker:The other thing that happened is in my department we have this nice tradition
Speaker:of when folks come back from sabbatical, often during the first faculty meeting
Speaker:of the year, the department meeting, we'll have a sabbatical report where
Speaker:people do a slideshow and it's really nice because they talk not just about
Speaker:the academic things that they did during sabbatical, but they also show pictures.
Speaker:And you know, many people have kids and so they're talking about
Speaker:what they did with their kids.
Speaker:And so it's very nice.
Speaker:Soon after I submitted my Fulbright application, my colleague David gave his
Speaker:sabbatical report presentation, and he had been in Florence for his sabbatical.
Speaker:And I looked at his pictures and I just thought, oh, I kind
Speaker:of want David's sabbatical.
Speaker:I've been planning this sabbatical in Tanzania where I, you know,
Speaker:a country that I love to be in.
Speaker:But I just thought his seemed so magical.
Speaker:And I hadn't been to Europe in a long time and I thought, I just imagined myself
Speaker:like walking down cobblestone streets and looking at beautiful architecture.
Speaker:And like you said before, like there was something inside me that thought.
Speaker:I felt calm thinking about that version of sabbatical, a calmness that
Speaker:I didn't feel when I thought about my sabbatical that I was planning.
Speaker:And so I remember I said to my, I think I actually, after that meeting,
Speaker:said to one of my good friends, like, I think I want David's sabbatical.
Speaker:And I was joking, but not really because then I started thinking
Speaker:differently about my sabbatical.
Speaker:I started asking myself different questions.
Speaker:So before this moment, before this sort of turning point, I thought sabbatical is
Speaker:about the next professional step, right?
Speaker:It's about positioning myself for the next part of my career.
Speaker:It's doing something meaningful, and it is right, like there is an accountability.
Speaker:Sabbatical is not just a vacation.
Speaker:You have to show that you're doing something to, you know,
Speaker:advance your career, benefit the institution, that sort of thing.
Speaker:But I started asking questions like, what if sabbatical was about
Speaker:having an adventure as a family or reconnecting as a family?
Speaker:What if sabbatical was about my husband's career and not mine?
Speaker:What would be useful for him?
Speaker:I've been pulling him along to lots of different things.
Speaker:What if my sabbatical was about rest and overcoming burnout and not right?
Speaker:Surprise that, that didn't cross my mind until about five
Speaker:months into thinking about it.
Speaker:And as I asked myself those questions, I really just, all these new possibilities
Speaker:for sabbatical came into my mind.
Speaker:And I really, I decided to build my sabbatical, not about the next, you
Speaker:know, not around the next logical professional thing, but around me.
Speaker:Overcoming burnout, reconnecting with my work, reconnecting, like
Speaker:having some fun with my family.
Speaker:Because I felt like the past four years had just been
Speaker:really stressful for all of us.
Speaker:Maybe three years at that point.
Speaker:I can't, I feel like COVID has just created this blur in my mind where
Speaker:I can't keep track of time anymore.
Speaker:And what if it were about finishing projects instead of starting new ones?
Speaker:So I thought going to Tanzania is lovely for all the reasons
Speaker:that I had described to you.
Speaker:But the other thing is that being in Tanzania requires me to always be
Speaker:engaging and being in relationship with people and starting, you
Speaker:know, starting something new.
Speaker:And I just started thinking that what I actually needed was some
Speaker:time where I wasn't building lots of relationships and starting something new.
Speaker:I needed time that was a little more quiet where I could read, think
Speaker:deeply about the projects that I had started and evaluate whether I still
Speaker:wanted to continue them, and then to just analyze some data and do some
Speaker:writing, because that's the part of my job that I really like the most.
Speaker:And so I wanted to create space for myself to kind of get back into those
Speaker:scholarly activities that really make me feel connected and like
Speaker:I'm doing something meaningful.
Speaker:So that is a long way of then and then of explaining.
Speaker:And you had said that part of the burnout was just feeling like me getting
Speaker:back into the research again was Yeah.
Speaker:So it's a so lovely shift in perspective.
Speaker:I just have this picture in my head of this busy, busy, busy and then
Speaker:they're going and giving and building new relationships and collecting more
Speaker:data is the, the busy academic mind.
Speaker:And, I loved the what if questions, just allowing yourself the space to,
Speaker:I mean, that's even just stopping, stopping and asking what if is a stop.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:What if it could be different?
Speaker:And that the point that you came to was this isn't about giving
Speaker:out, and collecting more.
Speaker:It's about taking in and reconnecting to yourself and other things that
Speaker:are important or that you love doing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It was really about restoration.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And, and at that point it became very exciting.
Speaker:So I. I mean, things might have spiraled a little bit.
Speaker:My husband said it was a little, I don't think it was stressful, but I think it was
Speaker:amusing to him because for the next two or three months, I have serious wanderlust.
Speaker:And so for the next two or three months, I would be like,
Speaker:what if we went to Costa Rica?
Speaker:What if we went to Portugal?
Speaker:What if we went to Spain?
Speaker:And so I just had so many ideas.
Speaker:I was researching all these different possibilities.
Speaker:And we eventually settled on, Bordeaux, France as our sabbatical destination.
Speaker:And it was a little bit, a little bit pragmatic.
Speaker:One of the criteria I had in my mind was somewhere that was a little bit
Speaker:warmer than where we live here in the mm-hmm frozen tundra of Michigan.
Speaker:My husband, his preferred temperature, I don't know what it is in Celsius, but
Speaker:would be like 80 or 90 degrees Fahrenheit.
Speaker:So originally I was looking at Spain for those reasons.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:But then in Spain or Portugal, it would've been difficult to get a long-term visa.
Speaker:So we were worried about where we could get a visa, knowing that I
Speaker:had completely abandoned the idea of being attached to a university.
Speaker:So in Tanzania I would've been attached to a university and this new version of
Speaker:sabbatical, I said, let's go somewhere that we want to be as a family and where
Speaker:we can have, and also I was sort of thinking of my husband's career and he had
Speaker:wanted to make some connections in Europe, so we kind of landed on Europe and then
Speaker:it was between, Valencia and Bordeaux.
Speaker:And Bordeaux had kind of the right combination.
Speaker:There was a small bilingual school we could send the kids to.
Speaker:It was a place where we could have the lifestyle that we wanted as a family.
Speaker:We live a very suburban life where we drive everywhere and we just wanted to
Speaker:not have a car, take public transit, eat good food and, and be in Europe where
Speaker:we could travel around with the kids and have some reconnect with the part of us,
Speaker:you know, that really enjoys adventure and travel and being in new places.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:So we spent, about five or six months.
Speaker:So one semester, the fall semester in Bordeaux.
Speaker:and then because my husband, I joked that, you know, he was
Speaker:the, . Weighing us down or he prevented us from staying a full year.
Speaker:But we had, we came back to Michigan for the second part of my sabbatical
Speaker:because he had to go back to work.
Speaker:But we had this magical sabbatical in Bordeaux and it really, it
Speaker:did for me what I needed it to do.
Speaker:And if people could see your face when you talked about that, you just lit up
Speaker:and, I could see you almost reliving the, some of the memories when you're talking
Speaker:about the magical, the magical time.
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:I get feeling that, if you had have done the sabbatical that you first planned, you
Speaker:would've come back even more burned out.
Speaker:How did you come exactly back after this sabbatical?
Speaker:So, the biggest surprise for me, was that when we came back to the US.
Speaker:We, we came back right before Christmas, and then in about January
Speaker:I actually wanted to pick up my work.
Speaker:I felt a desire to reengage, and I should say that I did no
Speaker:work while we were in Bordeaux.
Speaker:And it felt like a risk because I really worried if I, if I stop working,
Speaker:will I ever want to start again?
Speaker:And the answer was yes, because I let myself rest.
Speaker:I, I mean, I walked around Bordeaux, I had coffee with fr, you know, I made
Speaker:friends and we would go out for lunch.
Speaker:We cooked more.
Speaker:We took day trips.
Speaker:I did a lot of jigsaw puzzles, which is something I really enjoy.
Speaker:And so, and I, I ran a lot.
Speaker:I really wanted to get back into running.
Speaker:And so I also trained for half marathon.
Speaker:And so I did one in Nice actually in November.
Speaker:I think I tried to get into the Bordeaux one, but it fill up very quickly.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:because I, I believe they stopped for wine tastings en route.
Speaker:Is it?
Speaker:People aren't so concerned about their times.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:There is one that goes through the, I think the Medoc wine region.
Speaker:Sounds like a lot of fun.
Speaker:I don't know if I could do it.
Speaker:Drinking wine.
Speaker:I mean, there's one, like in Wisconsin, I went to a grad
Speaker:school in Madison, Wisconsin.
Speaker:And so Wisconsin is a big beer state, I guess.
Speaker:And so at the end of the marathon, as I think is, or the half marathon as I think
Speaker:is normal, there's always beer at the end.
Speaker:And I just think like, oh, that's the last thing I want after I'm done running.
Speaker:But, anyway, so it was, you know, on a day-to-day basis.
Speaker:There wasn't, we weren't doing anything terribly exciting.
Speaker:The kids were going to school, but it was just like, Bordeaux is a beautiful city.
Speaker:We drank good wine, we ate croissants.
Speaker:When we've gone back now we stock up on butter, we bring it back.
Speaker:Because you just can't get butter like that in the us.
Speaker:But it was the, the time that I needed.
Speaker:And then in the, when we came back, I mean, in the spring semester, I
Speaker:was excited to get back into work.
Speaker:But I didn't get back on that treadmill.
Speaker:I was not working at like full time at the pace that I was before sabbatical.
Speaker:Because, so you talked about it being a restoration and it sounds like a reset.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it, it changed the way I see my career, I think.
Speaker:So one of the things that was very interesting about being in
Speaker:France was that no one cared what I did about my profession, right?
Speaker:We live in a university town where we know a lot of professors and and
Speaker:I think the US is just a little bit more, like the first question
Speaker:people ask is what do you do?
Speaker:And we talk about work a lot.
Speaker:And in France, you know, I think people were curious about how we were able to
Speaker:just live in Bordeaux for five months.
Speaker:But after I'd say I have an annee sabbatique they'd say, oh, okay.
Speaker:And then no one cared.
Speaker:No one wanted to know my resume, right?
Speaker:Or my cv.
Speaker:And I think something I discovered was that I can be an interesting
Speaker:person who makes friends and enjoys their life without having my
Speaker:academic, my career as the foreground.
Speaker:And it was hard because it, for me, talking about work is easy.
Speaker:So then thinking about what else do I like to talk about or do.
Speaker:But I think for me, that really shifted my perspective on my career
Speaker:and who I am in relation to my career.
Speaker:And so it's something that I continue to work on is kind of being less
Speaker:attached to my scholarly identity and remembering that I have a lot
Speaker:of other, other things that I value and other things that are important
Speaker:that, Hmm, that I want to prioritize.
Speaker:I love that question.
Speaker:Who am I in relation to my career?
Speaker:And how do you keep reminding yourself to reflect on that?
Speaker:Because once you get back into the system, I imagine it's
Speaker:easy to get pulled back into.
Speaker:I am my career.
Speaker:I think one of the ways is.
Speaker:The boundaries that I set, or asking myself the question of, is this something
Speaker:that I have to do, actually have to do?
Speaker:Or is it something that I'm telling myself I have to do?
Speaker:And so an example is a colleague and I, we have a grant right now to do some
Speaker:work in Tanzania, and we were kind of looking ahead to the next grant and
Speaker:we had to make a decision this fall.
Speaker:The call for proposals came out.
Speaker:It was going to be a very quick turnaround, and old Bethany would've
Speaker:said, okay, like, come on, let's do it.
Speaker:And I would've, that would've taken over a month of my life and
Speaker:I would've been very stressed out and working long hours on this.
Speaker:And instead I said, okay, well, we currently have a grant.
Speaker:It doesn't end until the end of June.
Speaker:We're going to have writing to do after that.
Speaker:Do we actually need to spend the time right now applying for a new grant?
Speaker:Is that the best use of our time?
Speaker:And the answer was we didn't have to.
Speaker:No one was telling us we had to.
Speaker:And in fact, right now is a challenging time to apply for a grant because
Speaker:so much funding has been cut in the US that these foundations are
Speaker:being flooded with applicants.
Speaker:And then, and I thought about, is that what I want my life to
Speaker:look like in the next month?
Speaker:And no, it's not.
Speaker:So you know that that funding will probably be there and
Speaker:if it's not, that's okay.
Speaker:And there'll be other funding somewhere.
Speaker:There'll be right.
Speaker:Mm. So I think it's hard because unlearning that muscle memory
Speaker:of just, you always have to go for the next thing is very hard.
Speaker:But I think I've also.
Speaker:I'm just able to maybe slow down a little bit and I don't always get it right.
Speaker:I make mistakes and then I have to undo it.
Speaker:But, giving myself time to pause.
Speaker:I have a colleague who said she never, when someone asks her if she wants
Speaker:to take on a new project, she always waits 24 hours before responding.
Speaker:And so I've tried to do something like that where, again, I think this
Speaker:is a very gendered thing or I'm a people pleaser, but I think I have
Speaker:this, I want to make you happy.
Speaker:So I will say yes, and just saying, I'm gonna need to think about that, or I'm
Speaker:going to need to look at my schedule and see if I have time for that.
Speaker:Helps me to not just, yeah, take on more and more and more
Speaker:because I feel like I need to.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And also, you said early in the conversation about this being
Speaker:applied work and work that you really care about and the impact
Speaker:that you wanna have through the work.
Speaker:So it's also that thing of, also wanting to have that impact.
Speaker:And that's just such a wise thing to do, just to gain that pause and
Speaker:that space just to create the time to reflect and really think about.
Speaker:Reminded me of a question that I often ask myself.
Speaker:Sometimes I have a post-it hanging on my thing about if I say yes
Speaker:to this, what am I saying no to?
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And you've just articulated that whole trade off, that is entailed
Speaker:in any of these decisions.
Speaker:Because you could, and that's one of the problems with academia, isn't it?
Speaker:There's no stopping point.
Speaker:You can always, have another grant and put in the month or more to write it.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And then when you get it, you've got to deliver on it
Speaker:. And it's a lot easier to start things and work on new ideas than to finish them.
Speaker:And so I think the other thing that I've realized is that I am able to
Speaker:follow through and publish things, but if you're constantly in this cycle of
Speaker:starting something new, then you don't give yourself time to really think
Speaker:about, what you want to write about it.
Speaker:And that's where we have the impact.
Speaker:It's not in collecting the data.
Speaker:. So I think there's a, there's a book that I had, that I'd read, or I think I
Speaker:skimmed because it's fairly obvious, but I think it has a good, important message.
Speaker:It's called Essentialism, and I think the image on the is kind of this circle with,
Speaker:I don't know, eight arrows emanating from it, going in all different directions.
Speaker:And the main idea of the book is that if you are putting energy into
Speaker:so many different little things, you don't make an impact on any of them.
Speaker:And if you streamline and you choose a few things to focus on, then you
Speaker:can make your highest contribution to the things that you are working on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And so I try to think about that too.
Speaker:Where do I want to make my highest contribution?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's something that the egg collecting in academia of how many grants
Speaker:and how many papers and the targets that performance metrics we lose focus on.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And I think it's counter-cultural to say, I'm actually going to
Speaker:try to do less, but do it better.
Speaker:Better.
Speaker:Because I'll be more focused.
Speaker:And the finishing is such a good point as well.
Speaker:Because again, I think that's something that I, I reflect back on.
Speaker:There are many things that we did the work on, we collected the data on and
Speaker:never finished in the wrapping up.
Speaker:You talked about the time and space to reflect and draw out the insights
Speaker:and that from the work and you come from an education background and
Speaker:you also talked about unlearning.
Speaker:In what ways do you think your disciplinary background influences
Speaker:your thinking around these issues around unlearning and the importance
Speaker:of reflecting and thinking?
Speaker:Yeah, that's a great question that I haven't thought about.
Speaker:But I think, you know, in education we talk about the explicit curriculum
Speaker:and then the hidden curriculum.
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:So in any classroom there is, of course, kids are learning
Speaker:algebra or geometry or whatever.
Speaker:But then there's also a hidden curriculum in the way that kids are being socialized
Speaker:or the kinds of implicit signals that they're getting about how to act in a
Speaker:classroom or the kinds of things that will get positive attention from a teacher.
Speaker:And so I think I have been thinking more about this, partly because
Speaker:I'm teaching a research methods class in the spring and I think.
Speaker:We're going to do kind of a class research project about the hidden
Speaker:curriculum of being a graduate student.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:You know, the [Oh, lovely].
Speaker:The things people tell you and the things that they don't tell you.
Speaker:Just as a way of learning how to do interviews and observations.
Speaker:That's a lovely meta project.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I thought it would be meaningful to the students.
Speaker:And it's not in anyone's research area, I don't think.
Speaker:So I think part of what I'm trying to do is unlearn the
Speaker:hidden curriculum maybe, or the,
Speaker:the, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker:Maybe just also have more agency in the pro process to not just be
Speaker:caught up in the wave of, well, this is what the academy wants me to do.
Speaker:Um, and to sort of resist the the expectation that you'll just give
Speaker:more and more of yourself for quite frankly, not more compensation.
Speaker:I got asked over the summer, I was getting emails from a unit
Speaker:on campus asking me to be part of meetings about some new initiative.
Speaker:And I thought, initially I thought, oh, this is kind of interesting.
Speaker:But then I realized I wasn't really clear about what they were asking of me.
Speaker:And so I asked the question that I think you're not really supposed to ask is
Speaker:like, how do you imagine that being part of this work is going to benefit faculty?
Speaker:And they said, well, you know, if you have a research interest in X, it might be.
Speaker:And I just said, well, thanks.
Speaker:That's really clarifying.
Speaker:Actually, I don't prefer to be part of these conversations.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Because again, it would've taken me away from the things that I care about.
Speaker:And so I could have spent, you know, these hour long brainstorming
Speaker:meetings and I think it's important work, but it's not work for me to do.
Speaker:And it's, it can feel very flattering.
Speaker:I think ego is part of it too, right?
Speaker:It feels flattering to be asked to be part of something or to write something.
Speaker:I think some people are surprised when they ask me, oh, would you write a
Speaker:chapter about this for this edited volume?
Speaker:And I say, well, that's not actually my research interest.
Speaker:So no, I'm not able to.
Speaker:And people have a hard time hearing that People have a hard time hearing
Speaker:you say, no, I'm not, you know, well, but it's going to be so prestigious.
Speaker:Well, that's, that's lovely.
Speaker:But it's actually not I don't want to spend six months or a
Speaker:year of my life working on this.
Speaker:Not because it's not important, it's just not what I am focused on.
Speaker:It's not important.
Speaker:It's not your important for now.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And it's easy to get, I think, pulled into things because it feels flattering
Speaker:to be asked to be on a committee or to make a contribution to something.
Speaker:But like you said, every time you say yes to something, you're
Speaker:saying no to other things.
Speaker:And so I think that's the other way that I try to keep things in check is saying
Speaker:like, do I actually, if I say yes to this, what is my life going to look like in two
Speaker:or three months and what am I not able to do either professionally or personally?
Speaker:Because I'm just not interested in being a person who is working
Speaker:frenetically all the time.
Speaker:And when my son was very young, my husband and I decided we basically
Speaker:would not work on the weekends.
Speaker:And so I told myself if the work that I'm able to do, and still
Speaker:be present with my family, can get me tenure, then that's great.
Speaker:And if it doesn't, then I'm sure I have other marketable skills that I
Speaker:could use in a different industry.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that's something we do need to remind all of ourselves and our
Speaker:students and our colleagues about that.
Speaker:We can get obsessed with this one gold standard supposed career path.
Speaker:And there are many ways that we can apply our skills.
Speaker:So a lot of your personal journey, it seems post-tenure has been
Speaker:about finding your own identity and what's important to you.
Speaker:And finding your agency in making the choices, in saying yes or no
Speaker:in asking the what if questions.
Speaker:I'm just curious, do you have any like reflective journaling practice or
Speaker:anything like that to help you in this?
Speaker:Or is this just something that sort of mulls in your head?
Speaker:Yeah, I wish I could say that I had a journaling practice, but no, I think it's
Speaker:just something that happens in my head.
Speaker:And then I have a great friend and mentor.
Speaker:I just spent a couple hours with her the other day and she's a,
Speaker:a great person for me to kind of say, this is what's happening.
Speaker:These are the choices that I'm making, or this is coming up and it's friction.
Speaker:And she's very.
Speaker:Helpful in, you know, she'll call me out if I'm just being selfish or unreasonable.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:But in saying like, it's okay to make decisions that, that meet your needs and
Speaker:to not get pulled into other people's expectations or do things just because
Speaker:other people want you to do them.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That's lovely.
Speaker:Just having that sort of support and colleague that you can trust to do that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Because so many people will, I think, encourage you to just keep going.
Speaker:It's, it's well-meaning, right?
Speaker:But I think people will say, well this strategic thing would be to do this.
Speaker:And so someone who kind of help will validate the idea that I
Speaker:don't need to be doing everything.
Speaker:But I think the more I think I do reflect on it, but also the more I
Speaker:practice it, the more I stop and think about things and then make a decision
Speaker:that's grounded in sort of my own values or how I want to spend my time.
Speaker:I think it becomes easier.
Speaker:And it's a little easier to then see the things where, you know, or
Speaker:to see colleagues who are kind of like unnecessarily wrapping themself
Speaker:up in the department politics or taking on more and more things
Speaker:that they don't need to take on.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And in the process, you're gathering more evidence to, to
Speaker:confirm that it all still works.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And something that I ask my clients a lot because when we're working
Speaker:on a sabbatical plan, a big part of that is thinking about boundaries.
Speaker:And so.
Speaker:How you make this great plan.
Speaker:Now, how do you protect your time?
Speaker:Because again, it's well-meaning people, but students are going
Speaker:to keep needing things from you.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Collaborators will keep needing things.
Speaker:So how do you put those guardrails in place so that your time is protected?
Speaker:And people will say, well, I don't, I'm worried that if I stop reviewing
Speaker:grants for this organization, you know, X or Y might happen.
Speaker:Or if I step away from this X or Y. And so I usually ask like, what's
Speaker:the worst thing that could happen?
Speaker:Mm. And usually it's nothing actually.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Bad.
Speaker:You know, the things we imagine, even if the worst case scenario
Speaker:happened, it's probably not that bad.
Speaker:And I've had this experience, I've talked to enough colleagues and clients now
Speaker:who have said, you know, I said no to a lot of things during my sabbatical.
Speaker:And guess what?
Speaker:Guess what?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You come back and people still ask you to do things, you know,
Speaker:and they ask you to do more.
Speaker:So that's why in my experience, it's so important to have good boundaries
Speaker:during sabbatical, because once you come back, you get flooded
Speaker:with requests for doing things.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I want to come back to the boundaries because that was going to be one of
Speaker:the questions that I had about creating the space, but still having the
Speaker:responsibilities for students and labs and projects, so, among other things.
Speaker:But just stepping back, what's one of the first things you ask?
Speaker:You get people to think about when they're thinking about their own sabbaticals?
Speaker:So we start in a place that I think is counterintuitive
Speaker:And sadly, that's where we leave it for now.
Speaker:If you are curious about what is the counterintuitive place to start when
Speaker:you're thinking about your sabbaticals, keep an eye out for part two that
Speaker:will be released as the next episode.
Speaker:Part two will provide lots of practical guidance for you about being more
Speaker:intentional about designing, not just your leave, but also I think your
Speaker:career and a career that is sustainable and meaningful in the long term.
Speaker:You can find the summary notes, a transcript and related links for this
Speaker:podcast on www.changingacademiclife.com.
Speaker:You can also subscribe to Changing Academic Life on iTunes, Spotify.
Speaker:And I'm really hoping that we can widen the conversation about how
Speaker:we can do academia differently.
Speaker:And you can contribute to this by rating the podcast and also giving feedback.
Speaker:And if something connected with you, please consider sharing this
Speaker:podcast with your colleagues.
Speaker:Together we can make change happen.
