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Episode 17

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Published on:

2nd Apr 2025

Graham McAllister (Part 2) on aligning team vision (CAL121, S6E15)

In this second part of my conversation with Graham McAllister, we explore Graham's next pivot to studying organizational psychology at the London School of Economics. After selling his startup, Graham decided to do an MSc to help him answer what he now saw as the core problem in game development teams and that was lack of a unified vision. He shares his insights into shared mental models, vision alignment, shared values, diversity in hiring, and building resilient teams. He also discusses how these principles can be applied to other creative and research collaborations. Keep an eye out for the final episode in this series with Graham where he shares practical tips on the art and practice of writing.

Overview:

00:00 Intro

00:29 Episode Introduction

02:30 The Turning Point: Leaving the Company and Writing a Book

04:54 Discovering Organizational Psychology

05:44 The Journey to London School of Economics

07:16 The All-Consuming Feeling of Vision

11:07 The Importance of Education and Luck

16:26 Reflections on Lifelong Learning

19:22 Applying Mental Models Beyond Games

20:42 Understanding Alignment and Values in Organizations

23:39 Rethinking Hiring Practices and Leadership

26:46 Setting a Vision and Mission

29:01 Building a Mental Model

32:19 Operationalizing Shared Values

36:26 Detecting and Addressing Cultural Beliefs

38:15 Preview of Part 3 on Writing

40:38 End 

Related Links:

Graham’s Home page and LinkedIn Profile

CAL120 Part 1 episode with Graham on his previous career pivots

Kotter’s Change Model https://www.kotterinc.com/methodology/8-steps/

Edgar Schein’s three layer of organizational culture - see various

discussions:

Mentioned in this episode:

Call to sign up for next online Academic Leadership Development course

If you are interested in understanding who you are as a leader and how do you create environments in which people can thrive and develop and do their great work together, then consider signing up for our next online academic leadership development course. The sign up deadline is 6th of April, 2025, and the course will take place online on Friday mornings during May, 2025. You can find the details by going to wwwinformaticseurope.org. We'd love to have you as part of our next cohort and be part of changing academic life for the better. https://www.informatics-europe.org/events/academic-leadership-development.html

Transcript
Geri:

Welcome to Changing Academic Life.

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I'm Geraldine Fitzpatrick, and this is

a podcast series where academics and

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others share their stories, provide

ideas, and provoke discussions about what

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we can do individually and collectively

to change academic life for the better.

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welcome to part two of my conversation

with Graham McAllister, where we explore

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his next career pivot to a master's

degree in organizational psychology

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at the London School of Economics.

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You may remember that at the end of part

one, we left him having sold his startup

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company and on holidays and starting to

write his book on usability and games.

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He talks about how during the writing

process he realized that there was

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actually a deeper core problem, and

that was the lack of a unified vision

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within the teams developing the games.

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Through some serendipitous encounters,

he ends up at London School of Economics

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as a student again and studying

organizational psychology to help him

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work out how he could solve this problem

of shared vision and vision alignment

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Again, his insights have relevance

beyond the video games industry to

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any creative team endeavor, including

collaborative research projects.

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He discusses the transformative power

of shared mental models and vision

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alignment within teams, the importance

of hiring practices for diversity and

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the significance of values and beliefs.

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He also talks about methods to ensure

alignment and resilience within

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teams and shares insights into how

these principles can be implied to

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improve both product development and

organizational cultures more generally.

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So we'll pick the recording up here

at the end of where Graham has been

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reflecting on how he got to some of

those deeper insights into what the real

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problems were in the video games industry.

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Graham: So yeah, eventually at the

end of my career, I got to the bottom

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of my pyramid of whys, which is

it's, it's mental models combined

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with vision and culture are the two

things I ultimately come back with.

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Geri: So why did you think you

had to go back and do an MSc

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Graham: I didn't know.

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I'd, so here's, when I left my

company, I did not know for the

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first time what I wanted to do.

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But I did know that I was done there.

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Geri: hmmm

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Graham: I've never had that before.

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I've always known what the next leap

was, like, you always join these dots up.

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My dot is here, the next dot's over there.

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I see, you kind of form a path.

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But there was no other dot in this case.

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But I went on holiday to a Spanish

island, and in the morning I went for

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a long run, and in the afternoon I sat

with my iPad and started writing a book.

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on my previous career.

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So on usability, it was called

usability type testing or something.

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It changed over the years, but so I

started writing this book and I eventually

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got to the chapter, which talked about

user experience, so not usability.

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In other words, what's the barrier to

playing the friction points, whatever.

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But more the feeling you

get when you play the game.

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And I realized I found the

chapter quite difficult to write.

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I was like, that's interesting.

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Basically, you're trying to answer

the question, what is a video game?

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What is it?

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What happens when we play a video game?

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And how would I write that in a chapter?

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And I thought about, it made me

think about my very first client in

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the video game industry, where they

allowed me to walk around the studio.

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And I was able to walk around,

and I remember asking people,

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Tell me about your game.

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No, tell me about your mission.

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What are you making?

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And I got a different answer from

the different people that I spoke to.

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They're in different departments.

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Everyone was a designer.

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Everyone was a programmer.

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Everyone was an artist.

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Everyone was in the management.

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I remember thinking,

isn't that interesting?

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This team.

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They don't really know what

they're doing, at least I'm not

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getting that from the answer.

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And that game ended up being

cancelled due to lack of vision.

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In other words, they

didn't know what it was.

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So this problem, here's me trying to write

this book as a chapter thinking, it's

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very difficult to write what a game is.

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And when I speak to people

making the product, they don't

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seem to know what it is either.

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That's a fascinating

research problem, right?

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What is it then?

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How do I, how would,

imagine this was a PhD.

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What's the research question that

we're actually trying to answer here?

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What is vision?

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What is game vision?

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And so someone eventually said

I should speak to, actually it's

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someone we know, Pejman,Mirza-Babaei.

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Pejman said, I've got a

friend you should speak to.

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And she was a visiting professor at UCL.

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And she said, Oh, I see your problem.

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That's organizational psychology.

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That's the sub branch

of psychology you're in.

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I didn't even know what

branch of science I was in.

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I was like, I've got a problem.

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I see the problem.

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All the evidence in the

industry says there's a problem.

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But it took someone else to tell

me the flavor that the science, the

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branch of science I needed to go with.

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And I was like, wow, that's interesting.

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So I better find out double quick

about organizational psychology

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and thank you because you're part

of my LSE journey by helping me do

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Geri: LSE is the

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Graham: London School of Economics.

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Yeah.

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Sorry, I should say.

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So I applied to London School of

Economics, which you, uh, very, you're

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very kind as many people listening

will know, uh, you wrote the, the,

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uh, letter of support, the, um, And

I'm sure your level of support is

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fundamental to me getting into LSE.

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But so I went back to London

School of Economics to study

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organizational psychology, which

is a very good program for that.

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It's only beaten by a few, like maybe

Harvard or, or maybe a few others.

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So it's very, very highly regarded.

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I was lucky to get in.

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Um, but I was doubling down.

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The same feeling I had, remember I said

I stood still when I knew I was going

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to start a games user research studio.

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It stopped me moving.

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That's how, that's how

strong the feeling was.

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vision problem had the same effect.

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Where I knew everything was

like, that, that's the path.

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There's no deviation from this path.

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That's the path for the end of my

career is I did not know what I'll

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find and maybe what I end up finding

is there's nothing to be uncovered.

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And it's just one of those

problems where we don't know,

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but could have been the answer.

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I genuinely could have been

the answer, but it's not.

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You actually can fix it,

which is the good news.

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But I did know that I only

had that feeling twice.

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One was user research

to the game industry.

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And now game vision and bringing

that into the game industry.

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I'm pausing there.

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Because I think there's going to be a, I

could have a final chapter, some sort of,

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um, postscript, which just says, could

I bring this to any team or any company?

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Because

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Geri: we'll get to that , I want

to pick up on, you said it's only

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twice you've had that feeling.

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Tell us more about the feeling

because we're often, especially as

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academics, researchers, computer

scientists, we're in our heads.

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And you talked about the first time

you did the in your head spreadsheet

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of pros and cons and adding up

and, you know, in the end went

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with the gut, the feeling there.

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And then you had these other two very

clear experiences of being stopped.

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Talk more about the feeling,

like how do you access it?

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How do you recognize it

literally in your body?

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Graham: yeah, it is.

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It's a feeling.

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It's a, it's a very strong.

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all consuming feeling where, I don't

know if you ever watch a TV, an American

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TV show called House, he's a doctor

played by Hugh Laurie, and he's always

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trying to solve some really complicated

problem, you know, and he, but there's a

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moment every show where the camera zooms

in on his face and he stares into the

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mid distance and you realize he's got

the answer to this problem, you know.

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That is exactly the feeling I get that

I had in these two scenarios where you

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realize you're working on something

but you don't know quite It's not all

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the cogs haven't quite aligned yet.

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And then suddenly you realize that's it.

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That's the thing.

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And I had it with user research.

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And I had it with game vision where

it was like, that's the thing.

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Those are answering.

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You could say as well, we don't have

that term, ikigai, you know, where

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it's like, do people have the need?

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Do you have the passion?

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Do you have the skill?

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Those that sort of intersection

of these things overlap.

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And I think in each of those

cases, the overlap was so strong,

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like it burned a hole through

the center of the Venn diagram.

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Like it was just all consuming.

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That is the thing.

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And nothing has taken

me away from the path.

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So I think if you had it where it

was like, yeah, it's a bit like that.

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I'll try that for a few years.

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Then people change again.

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I was not changing.

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This is user research kept me for the

company was seven years, but it was

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before that, you know, even at Queens.

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So that was over a decade.

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That's bringing HCI to the game

industry, no deviation from the path.

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But then when the journey was done, I was

eventually, my mind was released from that

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problem, thinking, well, we've done that.

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What else?

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Because I knew that user research

was not the final answer.

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I got to a certain level of

the five whys, which is, well,

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we can put a band aid over it.

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We can, we can make the product

a bit better, but we're not

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actually fixing the team, really.

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They still don't know what they're making.

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User research did not

answer that question.

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That is not a user research problem.

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That's an organizational

psychology problem.

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So again, the hole was still burning,

but I realized there's something else.

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I had saw that problem in my previous

job, but I didn't have, when I left

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that job, I didn't quite hadn't

connected yet because I wasn't aware

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of organizational psychology and shared

mental models and all that type of, I'd

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heard the terms obviously, but I wasn't.

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I hadn't investigated them enough to

realize that is the particular that's

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leading to the user research problem.

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There's a deeper layer that

needs to be investigated here.

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But it's all consuming.

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It's like that.

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I can't express other than when you

know, you know, when you realize there's

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nothing going to take you off that path

that I don't need to look anywhere else.

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This is the final, this is it.

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This is the answer to there's

something here that is a decade

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long avenue of research and bringing

the knowledge and the findings

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to to your domain, your industry.

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Geri: I can hear that just certainty.

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I can hear the certainty

and the conviction.

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And, and it also sounded like you needed

to give yourself some space for it to mull

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in the back of your mind to get to that.

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It wasn't so much an intellectual process.

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It was Something that percolated

and it needed time and some

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distance, some stepping back.

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Graham: It needed two things.

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You're quite right.

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It needed time, need space to, um, need

space to not think about your current

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problem, but I also needed education.

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I needed someone to tell me,

I was not aware of this thing.

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It was an unknown, unknown that

I'm going to do that of all the

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possible branches of science that I

could go down and MScs I could do.

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I could have took the wrong one.

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I could have ended up doing something

kind of similar, maybe behavior

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change, which is kind of similar.

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But not quite in the same

sphere, you know, there was

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multiple ways I could have went.

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But this was laser, this was the one.

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So, I think you needed a little bit I

needed a little bit of education to say,

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Okay, um, I don't want to do this three or

four times in a row until I get it right.

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I needed time, I needed a bit of

education by speaking to different

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people, and then this UCL professor

said, This is where you need to go.

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Which proved to be true.

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So, that's lucky, right?

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That's luck as well that Pejman happened

to know this professor that happened

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to know who happened to know that.

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Geri: I always say if I did a

word cloud from the podcast of all

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the people sharing their stories.

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Luck would come out and it's

amazing how things work out.

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Serendipity happens.

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We just happen to meet or, you know, and

there's, there is a part where we have

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to be open and in a place to respond

and, you know, it's not going to drag us.

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Luck isn't going to drag

us kicking and screaming.

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We have to be open.

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But yeah,

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Graham: And I think that problem

academics suffer from that as well as

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in, especially industry people, where

they're so busy on the treadmill of,

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like I remember trying to do some, some

consulting, audio consulting a little bit.

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And some companies are,

we've no time to do that.

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So vision is the number one problem.

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I bore you for another hour.

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I'll tell you all the evidence.

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It's the number one problem,

stopping a games team, the game.

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And even for the number one

problem, making that team effective.

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They say, we have no time.

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They don't have the headspace to

even pop the head up and say, what

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problem are we actually addressing?

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So they're happy to build the wrong

product and make a mess of it.

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Than stop for four hours and

address the problem, which sounds

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insanity when you put it like that.

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Geri: Sounds insanity

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Graham: That's what happened.

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Geri: Sounds

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Graham: what happened.

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Geri: Yeah.

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Graham: Even as a researcher, like

I would say, going back to my LSE

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Masters, I knew going in that if I

found a meaningful result, I would

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be commercializing it in some way or

giving it away, writing a book and

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talking about it, sharing my knowledge.

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Where I did not have that mindset

when I was a PhD student, I was doing

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a PhD because I don't think I wanted

to get a job, you know, and someone

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paying me some funding to hang around

a computer for three years felt

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like, you know, that was wonderful.

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So, if I got, if I was doing a PhD now,

my mindset would be, well, is the problem

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substantial enough that I want to do it?

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Could I, would I write a

book over it at the end?

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Could it turn into a company?

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My mindset would be completely

different back to me as a 22 year old,

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Geri: And that's a

journey as well, isn't it?

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Graham: Yeah.

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Well, at least I fixed it with LSE.

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I did go in thinking this is going to

be a tool, it's going to be a book,

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it's going to be a series of talks.

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Um, so at least I did learn rather

than repeat this, repeat this

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Geri: And did, how, did you enjoy

the, the master's like, because

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this is going back to academia

again, but this time as a student.

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Graham: You have no idea.

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I didn't want to leave.

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I did not want to leave.

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London School of Economics was wonderful.

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I was smiling to myself

walking around campus.

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Like, I'm not using that as a metaphor or

saying that figuratively, I was literally

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walking around smiling by myself, just

thinking how lucky am I to be here

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researching a topic that I cannot stop

thinking about, that's going to solve

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the number one problem for games teams.

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Well, there's a chance

I might solve it anyway.

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How lucky is that?

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What's wrong with that picture?

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That's, that's, that's as good

as it gets, honestly, um, I

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couldn't imagine anything better.

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That's high up.

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Yeah,

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Geri: Oh, that's

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Graham: so yeah, I think being a 50 year

old student, you know, I was clearly

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the oldest person in the room, uh,

including most of the lecturers, but I

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didn't, that didn't bother me at all,

you know, um, even when I applied to

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LSE, they asked me, I applied as Mr.

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Graham McCallister, I never used

my PhD, um, so I applied as Mr.,

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but when they wrote back, they changed

it to doctor or something, you know,

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and I was like, oh, oh, they really,

really do look at that stuff, but I

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didn't, I wanted them to Ignore that.

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I'm a student.

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We're all students.

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You know, this, uh, this identity

title that, oh, you, you learned

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once, so now you're finished.

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That's complete nonsense, you

know, and I want, I wanted the Mr.

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title.

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I did not want the, the PhD

title, you know, so I was

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disappointed that they used that.

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Geri: Yeah.

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Because it is, it is an

ongoing learning journey.

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I know that, um, I also went

back and did a master's.

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I think I was, I think I had just

turned 60, actually, when I went

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back to do my, to do a master's.

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And it was in a applied positive

psychology coaching psychology.

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So again, sort of in that area, because

I saw a need and, and really wanted to

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address it and have an evidence base.

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And I, I couldn't, I was just smiling

to myself because I, it was hard work

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and I was doing it on top of my day

job and I loved every single minute.

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It was never a chore to sit down and

read a paper or write an assignment.

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Graham: What do you think changed

between us as 18 year olds doing

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our first bachelor's degree and

going back in the middle years of

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our life, you know, and kind of

thinking, this is the best thing ever.

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Geri: I don't know, it's funny.

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I'd go back and study again

and I still keep doing courses.

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I think it, I heard what you said about

it connecting to the why you're doing it.

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You've got a really clear

sense of why you care.

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And you also have a clear sense

that you don't know enough in

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order to solve a problem or help

in a way that you want to help.

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You need some more input

that you don't have so far.

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Graham: Yeah.

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I think as an 18 year old, you're

doing a degree to get a job.

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That's a stepping stone, but at 50

or 60, you're doing it because of

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some cause, some mission that you're

on to say, well, you don't need to

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do it at that stage, but you do.

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And, and you want more as you say you do

it, it's not like you come out and think,

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well I'm glad that's done, I'll now go

and do, I want, I want to do more of

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that, because there's more, you're just

uncovering more of what you don't know,

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Geri: Yeah.

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Graham: I don't know how

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I

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Geri: think also when you think also

when you're 18 or 28, you also think

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that somehow this is your path.

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You know, it's a career and.

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And it's not, it's just a step,

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Graham: I don't what type of PhD you did.

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I broadly see two types, so one is, you

join a department or a research group, and

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they're working on problem X, and you're

another researcher working on problem X.

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But mine was not that type, my PhD

was, the funding came from the dean

356

:

or something, there was some strange

Prize or award or something I had.

357

:

So I basically said, we can do computer

graphics, but you go and find your

358

:

problem and then go and research it.

359

:

And of all the things that

stood me the most over time was

360

:

being able to find the problem.

361

:

The first part of that PhD is

they didn't give the problem and

362

:

say, no, go and solve the problem.

363

:

It was you find the problem and

then go and fix the problem.

364

:

the first part was by

far the most interesting.

365

:

How do you find the problem?

366

:

That's the bit that's lasted me through

the company, and what I, the vision,

367

:

or player psychology, team psychology,

that's the part that's remained,

368

:

is your ability to see the problem.

369

:

That will endure forever.

370

:

The PhD in computer graphics, whatever,

no one's, you know, who cares, right?

371

:

Geri: yeah,

372

:

Graham: But your ability to think

through, well, if you're going to

373

:

solve the problem, how do I know, how

do I know how to solve the problem?

374

:

Where do I look?

375

:

How do I look?

376

:

That's interesting.

377

:

Geri: mm, it is, yeah, I, I

also did a PhD similar to that.

378

:

Um, so you did your, you did your

masters and you've talked about how

379

:

the, the key learnings insights were

around this, um, the value of, of

380

:

bringing a mental models perspective to

understanding shared vision within a team.

381

:

And you're very much applying that

within the games industry and how

382

:

to make games development better,

going back to this core problem.

383

:

I'm curious whether you think

that, you know, because you also

384

:

talked about doing some consulting

outside of the games industry.

385

:

So I'm curious to hear whether this

notion of teams and having a shared vision

386

:

is a problem in other domains as well.

387

:

And I'm thinking of, you know, our

academic research projects, for example,

388

:

Graham: For example?

389

:

Geri: as an example.

390

:

Yeah.

391

:

Graham: It appears to be the case.

392

:

So whenever I've talked, we talked

a few times about this publicly, the

393

:

game vision model, but whenever I

have talked about it, it would not

394

:

be unusual where people on the team

would say, Hey, that's interesting.

395

:

This is showing we're

not aligned on our goal.

396

:

Could you also help us at the

company level, not at the product

397

:

level, but at the game level?

398

:

In other words, I don't think the

founders of the company all want to

399

:

take the company to the same place.

400

:

For example, and people have

said that from, uh, academia has

401

:

come up, for example, banking.

402

:

I gave a talk at a design conference

and someone said, the, the management

403

:

of the bank aren't taking it.

404

:

And I've always, I've always said, see, I

always thought that was an easier problem

405

:

to solve because they're more tangible.

406

:

It's easy to see with video

games, it's an experience.

407

:

So it's intangible.

408

:

And I thought the problem was,

and it kind of is, because it's

409

:

not tangible, you can't point to

it and say, Well, we're making X.

410

:

So we all know we're going in the same.

411

:

But if we're making a company, the KPIs

are usually quite clear, which is we're

412

:

going to, you know, solve this problem

for these types of people in that market.

413

:

Um, are we all doing that?

414

:

Yes, we're all doing that.

415

:

And what do you realize?

416

:

And shared mental models is you're

probably not going deep enough.

417

:

In other words, at the surface level,

it looks like you're aligned, but

418

:

then you might get to something like,

well, how do we go about doing that?

419

:

Or what do we sacrifice?

420

:

Or what are you willing to leave

behind the typical organizational

421

:

change models, Kotter's model of,

you know, what do we change or what

422

:

do we keep and things like that.

423

:

So you realize that if

you're experiencing.

424

:

People say they're aligned.

425

:

It's probably not true.

426

:

That's one thing to bear in mind.

427

:

The second thing is just look to see are

you experiencing friction in your team?

428

:

After experiencing

friction, is it over a goal?

429

:

And why is that?

430

:

It means that if you think you're

aligned, but you're still experiencing

431

:

friction, then you haven't gone to a

deeper level of what are we aligned on?

432

:

Like maybe you're not aligned on values.

433

:

Like maybe we get growth.

434

:

We're getting the numbers.

435

:

We're making gazillion dollars a year.

436

:

But maybe we sacrifice to ethics,

we're horrible to people, we're

437

:

horrible to employees, we're

horrible to our customers, we're

438

:

horrible to the environment.

439

:

We'll sacrifice all of

that for the bottom dollar.

440

:

That's a source of friction, but that,

that means you're not aligned, obviously.

441

:

So alignment, you need to be, figure out,

well, are we aligned all the way down?

442

:

Not only in the goals, but also on how we

deliver the goals and how we check that.

443

:

Geri: So how we deliver the goals,

which goes back to, you know,

444

:

cause what you said there reflects

Our shared understanding of the

445

:

values underpinning the decisions

for how we achieve that goal.

446

:

Graham: And even back to your why,

like you've got a research group.

447

:

Why do we have a research group?

448

:

But why does this research group exist?

449

:

Is it just to churn out papers

or to fund PhD students to

450

:

sacrifice my career growth?

451

:

Or does the research group exist

to do some other bigger purpose?

452

:

Does it have a mission statement?

453

:

A company should have a mission statement.

454

:

What I've also seen, I'm

going to speak about my own

455

:

industry and video games here.

456

:

A lot of them, although they say

they have mission statements,

457

:

they're kind of paper thin.

458

:

Like really, it's about making money.

459

:

And part of me just wishes

them to just be honest and say,

460

:

we make, we're making money.

461

:

At least it'll be authentic, you know,

instead of saying, oh, we do it for

462

:

the players or some nonsense like that.

463

:

So, and you realize that a lot

of people don't hang around in

464

:

those companies because they

see through it pretty quickly.

465

:

But.

466

:

They don't want to belong.

467

:

You're just, you're not being honest

at least, you know, if you want to

468

:

make money, there's nothing wrong

with it, but at least to wrap it

469

:

up in some paper thin, you know, I

470

:

Geri: with your own company, you would

do things differently now, having

471

:

gone through the master's degree.

472

:

Graham: I think so

473

:

Geri: What would you do differently

if you were starting up your,

474

:

um, your own company now?

475

:

Graham: I think the way I, the way I

viewed hiring people back then was people

476

:

who were like me, I'm going to hire

people with my skillset culture fit.

477

:

You might say these days, but again, we

look at the science of building teams.

478

:

That's exactly what you

should not do anymore.

479

:

It's culture add, but you're looking

for people with the skillset.

480

:

The reason why you hired hired

me, in fact, you were ahead of

481

:

the curve, so you're looking to

build people who are, you know,

482

:

they fit your values, but they're

going to add something to the team.

483

:

So you don't want people disagreeing

on, uh, I'm not a culture researcher,

484

:

but obviously it came up with

LSE, but you want someone who fits

485

:

into your way of doing things.

486

:

You don't want someone who's all about

money and somebody's all about ethics.

487

:

Clearly that's a clash, you know,

but you want someone who's going

488

:

to fit the values of the company.

489

:

In addition to adding

different skill sets.

490

:

So culture fits now the outdated model

where you're just building more and more

491

:

the same and the company doesn't have any

real, it's going to stagnate over time.

492

:

Effectively, you may get success in

the short term, but over the long term,

493

:

you're not building a very good culture.

494

:

Culture add is the current

best way of building teams.

495

:

Geri: You're not building a resilient,

um, culture either because culture

496

:

add adds in resilience by nature of

the diversity that you're adding in.

497

:

Graham: Yeah, diversity of thought, you

know, challenging of ideas, so culture

498

:

builds in resilience, those cultural

resilience, and if anything the game

499

:

industry is not resilient, you know,

and they're also not very honest with

500

:

themselves, they have lots of problems.

501

:

Leadership problems are terrible,

like they're not usually trained on

502

:

leadership, they're just someone who

was once a domain expert and has now

503

:

been promoted to C level and they are.

504

:

This is not good.

505

:

They call it a professional industry,

but I query that on a daily basis,

506

:

and it's very much an amateur industry

with pockets of professionalism.

507

:

The domain experts are usually,

you know, experts in their domain.

508

:

That's true.

509

:

But the higher up the management, the more

culture sits or is normally controlled,

510

:

not ideal.

511

:

Geri: Mm.

512

:

Graham: Not ideal.

513

:

Geri: But many Part of the problem

in academia, as well as we're not

514

:

Graham: It is.

515

:

Geri: trained in leadership, which is why

we have our leadership development course.

516

:

Graham: And it's needed.

517

:

You probably remember, even as

an academic, people said, why

518

:

do we have academics do research

and teaching and administration?

519

:

Why do they have to be a jack of all

trades, for want of a better phrase?

520

:

Why do they have to do these

three separate threads?

521

:

When we could, another

model is we have experts.

522

:

But you apply that out and say,

well, why don't we have management

523

:

who are actually trained?

524

:

In management, we understand culture

and team building and building

525

:

resilience and coaching and growth.

526

:

And wouldn't that be nice in addition?

527

:

So, we don't have that.

528

:

We still have academics who do

teach and admin and do research.

529

:

And we still have, you know, the C suite

in academia who are domain experts.

530

:

They were professor of biology and

now they're controlling a university.

531

:

Can't see any problems with that.

532

:

Carry on.

533

:

Not to pick on biology, by the way.

534

:

Geri: So and what else would you

do differently in your company?

535

:

So, one is hiring, the hiring

decisions and this idea of culture add.

536

:

How would you ensure shared vision?

537

:

Graham: I think I did not, I did

not think about the future of the

538

:

company at all when I started because

the most likely outcome is failure.

539

:

So there are people who tried to

build games Research Studios before

540

:

me, and they were subdivisions of

famous research agencies in London.

541

:

And they wrote to me in advance and

said, don't bother trying because

542

:

we tried it and it didn't work.

543

:

So we'll save you the money and time.

544

:

Just don't do that.

545

:

And they said you should also do

it for the web or user research or

546

:

anything, you know, be a generalist,

do not apply it to only video games.

547

:

Because we are the generalists,

so we tried a games theme

548

:

that didn't work out for us.

549

:

And they're very rich and they've

been around for a long, long time.

550

:

So I had a few of those emails

from several different companies.

551

:

So the most logical path was,

look, it's not going to work.

552

:

And the vision for me was simple but

clear, bring HCI to the games industry.

553

:

So if people are hiring me to do

usability testing, my one service

554

:

that I was offering, Then I did not

know what the end result looked like.

555

:

I just knew what the start

of the journey looked like.

556

:

Could I get someone to pay me to

run usability testing on their game?

557

:

And can I find, and the business

model at the time, uh, said something

558

:

like, if I do two usability tests a

month, I think that's enough money

559

:

to start the company for a year.

560

:

It would last for a year.

561

:

Uh, and that's exactly what happened.

562

:

We did way more than that,

by the way, but I think.

563

:

I'll not mention specific numbers,

but I think we 5x'd the money for the

564

:

first year that I needed to survive.

565

:

So I needed x to survive

and we 5x'd from memory.

566

:

So it was more than I thought.

567

:

Um, so it did okay.

568

:

That was the indicator that,

well, that's interesting.

569

:

There's something here.

570

:

But then you may ask, well,

why didn't I have a vision?

571

:

Once I knew it was going to be,

you know, had legs to stand on,

572

:

why not set a vision at that point?

573

:

Um, I think I was just busy doing it.

574

:

You know, that as long as I keep

doing it, then that's, I don't

575

:

even know what the vision would be.

576

:

You know, even when I think back and go,

knowing what I know now about a vision,

577

:

I'm not sure what I even would have said

except bringing this to the game industry.

578

:

It's more of a mission than a vision.

579

:

It was an enduring purpose.

580

:

Like,

581

:

Geri: Is there a process that

you Could imagine going through

582

:

with, let's, let's pretend you're

starting a new company, new team.

583

:

Is that, is there a process that you

could go through or talk about, share

584

:

to get to some sort of at least initial

shared vision for this new company?

585

:

Graham: I think there's

a few things there.

586

:

I think one thing is terminology

around mission and vision is

587

:

sometimes interchangeable.

588

:

Um, so I'll state the most common one.

589

:

I think it's the most common.

590

:

for this conversation.

591

:

So mission is usually something

that will never change.

592

:

It's enduring and usually would last

for decades if ever changed at all.

593

:

So I would say my mission is making

video games should be as enjoyable

594

:

to make as they are to play.

595

:

So the players have a good time

usually, but the people who make

596

:

them have a miserable experience.

597

:

And I'm trying to fix that.

598

:

And one way was.

599

:

It's player psychology, like

measuring the product, and now it's

600

:

team psychology of game vision.

601

:

But the mission's the same.

602

:

In other words, why this

product is made is a mess.

603

:

So the mission's enduring.

604

:

The vision for the last company on

the product, it'll be product focused.

605

:

You know, we're going to bring world

class experience to the measurement

606

:

of player experiences or something.

607

:

That's a vision that would maybe last

for 10 years, um, and that could be true.

608

:

My vision is to say, well,

I'm going to make sure teams

609

:

are aligned on their product.

610

:

So it's more team, team focused.

611

:

Geri: hmm.

612

:

Graham: The process.

613

:

Um, we're trying to align

on a vision is interesting.

614

:

It has to be, you need a model

for the domain you're in.

615

:

That's one thing I've learned.

616

:

So my model for game vision by

itself would not apply to a company

617

:

because the bits I'm building

a mental model deconstructor.

618

:

That's how it's going.

619

:

So I will start off with the one sentence.

620

:

My model does start off with one sentence

saying describe your game in one sentence.

621

:

It's a very high level.

622

:

Or you might say, describe your

research group in one sentence.

623

:

Our research group or our

research project, maybe research

624

:

project is better, our research

project aims to blah, blah, blah.

625

:

But then the mental model deconstruction

part is going down those layers below

626

:

the surface thinking in terms of, I'm not

going to name them, but something else.

627

:

My video games are intangible.

628

:

They're an experience.

629

:

So I have to go from that thing

that you think you're making.

630

:

My job is to build a model that

deconstructs the model in your head.

631

:

And then we visualize it, and

we see how people's brain has

632

:

reconstructed information differently.

633

:

So I visualize what's

invisible, essentially.

634

:

That's how my mental model

635

:

Geri: hmm.

636

:

Mm hmm.

637

:

Graham: deconstructor works.

638

:

But you can imagine applying

that to your own research group.

639

:

Why does your research

project or group exist?

640

:

Then people have a first,

then you ask, again, another

641

:

question, or another question.

642

:

But you need an accurate

model for those sub questions.

643

:

This is where it would differentiate

from the five whys, where you're

644

:

asking the same question to go deeper.

645

:

In spirit, the mental model

deconstruct is the same, but I'm

646

:

using different questions to pull

apart these variations in thinking.

647

:

So that's the main difference between

the general five whys and my game vision

648

:

model, which is, I'm going to go deeper,

but I need a structure that is guaranteed

649

:

to pull apart the variation in thinking,

where the five whys may not pull apart.

650

:

Some people may hit a plateau

at the third why, for example.

651

:

Geri: Yes.

652

:

Yes.

653

:

Because they serve different

purposes, don't they?

654

:

The five whys getting to

the root cause, whereas

655

:

Graham: You could do it as an example, and

you may want to do this on your values.

656

:

I will take a simple model.

657

:

So I've tried to do this for companies

as well, because going back to LSE,

658

:

we do talk about different models of

organizational culture, for example.

659

:

And this is why it would different.

660

:

I've got a model of video games

that my game vision model works on.

661

:

But for a company, you might

say, well, these are our values.

662

:

You know, we pride.

663

:

Resilience, we've got a culture

of resilience, we've got a culture

664

:

of ethics, and we've got a culture

of, I don't know, creativity.

665

:

These are common models

of culture, I'd say.

666

:

And you might say, okay, well

how do you prioritize those?

667

:

Would you sacrifice some ethics

in order to be more creative?

668

:

Or to make more money, and some people

will say yes, and some people will say no.

669

:

I mean, if you see that variation

in the, how they weight these

670

:

different, uh, that's where you're

getting the friction, essentially.

671

:

And so then you have to tease

out, well, why is that happening?

672

:

Why do these people say it's

okay to make more money, where

673

:

they're praising creativity?

674

:

Or ethics, or resilience,

or whatever it may be.

675

:

Geri: And looking for where those

tensions might arise and doing the,

676

:

the pre planning work about how

you might deal with that, like,

677

:

Graham: I've even said with

some companies, whenever you

678

:

start off a new project, I want

you to do a kick off workshop.

679

:

And in the kick off workshop,

we're going to talk about this

680

:

mental model for your game.

681

:

And you're going to tell them this

is part of how you make decisions.

682

:

They're not arbitrary decisions.

683

:

This is the framework, and there's

all the criteria that we use.

684

:

So when we say we're making that

feature or that thing, here's

685

:

all the reasoning behind it.

686

:

Imagine a new research project where

you would say, we praise, uh, resilience

687

:

because we don't, this is research, right?

688

:

We, we think we're going to start off

answering X and we can end up answering Z.

689

:

Like the research could pivot at

some point because it's research.

690

:

No idea where it's going to go.

691

:

However, we will always make that

pivot decision based on this value

692

:

so that, you know, when we pivoted,

it wasn't a random decision.

693

:

It's because this is our value.

694

:

We always go this this route,

but I've never been on a research

695

:

project where that's been

696

:

Geri: yeah.

697

:

Graham: clearly transmitted.

698

:

I think we're discussed.

699

:

Like values.

700

:

Maybe you do it.

701

:

I don't know.

702

:

Geri: Because it gives, um, in having

that discussion up front, it also

703

:

gives the team a shared language.

704

:

You know, it's not just up to the leader

to be responsible for implementing that.

705

:

If it's a, if it's a process that

they've all been to, they can have

706

:

that discussion with one another.

707

:

How does this fit with

this value as sense checks?

708

:

Graham: I'm pleased

you mentioned language.

709

:

The root cause of why most people

get a different result than my game

710

:

vision alignment check is language.

711

:

So these terms are kind of, people

think they know what it means

712

:

because they came from a certain

studio or a certain research group.

713

:

And everyone's from a

different discipline.

714

:

Sometimes you have a manager or

a researcher or people who change

715

:

careers or like anything can happen.

716

:

So just clarifying language, uh.

717

:

Going back to the root cause.

718

:

One of the problems with mental

models is the language and

719

:

the other one is structure.

720

:

So the structure of the mental model

is not sufficient and the language

721

:

they use to describe the structure

is not sufficient or it's ambiguous.

722

:

So again, being general on what's

transferable, whenever you've got

723

:

a mental model for your research

group, it's What is the structure?

724

:

How do we think about this research group?

725

:

What's the cues?

726

:

What's the bits I'm using to

describe this research group?

727

:

And how do I define those terms?

728

:

And do we all do that in the same way?

729

:

I bet you it's unlikely to happen

in a, even in a small group, you're

730

:

unlikely to be aligned on that.

731

:

Geri: Yes, I agree.

732

:

And I see encouragingly increasing

efforts to have team charters and

733

:

things that sort of try to spell out

some shared understandings that I

734

:

think are getting better at somehow

articulating some shared values.

735

:

But I don't see the work being

done to operationalize them into

736

:

then, how does that play out

practically in our decisions?

737

:

And also not revisiting them

because a lot of these things

738

:

emerge in the doing as well.

739

:

And it's, how do we have

periodic checkpoints to say,

740

:

how are we going in this?

741

:

Do we need to revise, you know, what

new language challenges have emerged?

742

:

Um,

743

:

Graham: You reminded me of a famous

model of culture by Schein, S C H E I N.

744

:

And he says, it's at the pyramid,

if you Google it, you'll see.

745

:

But at the top level, it's what people do.

746

:

And then at the next

level is what people say.

747

:

So they'll say, Oh yeah, we're

very resilient around here.

748

:

We're always happy to change,

you know, and go for evidence.

749

:

But the bottom there is beliefs.

750

:

It's very hard to see beliefs, but the

method he advises and how to, detect if

751

:

a belief is being broken or are present

in your, in your studio or cultures.

752

:

If you say something and somebody

has an immediate and usually negative

753

:

reaction, then you know, I've touched.

754

:

Some people say touch a nerve is

the way of colloquially saying

755

:

it, but you've touched someone's

belief that's held so strong that

756

:

that will, that's hard to change.

757

:

So if you're in a meeting and someone

says something and someone has a strong

758

:

negative reaction, you're touching

on their belief, the cultural belief.

759

:

And you know, flags

should go up in your mind.

760

:

There's something here I need to pay

attention to because that's going to be

761

:

very hard to change if it ever changes.

762

:

I've seen it a few times in

the game industry, usually in

763

:

association with money, when

the four day workweek come out.

764

:

I remember asking a question like, how

would you change to a four day workweek?

765

:

And the reaction was

immediate and negative.

766

:

It was like, we would never

move to a four day work week.

767

:

And I realized right then,

that's their culture.

768

:

And they don't want to challenge it, or

query it, or explore other models, or

769

:

other ways, or how to be more efficient,

or, they're not, they don't want to do it.

770

:

Until something significant changes.

771

:

New leadership, or they're

forced to in some way.

772

:

But that's interesting,

you know, that lower,

773

:

Geri: It is interesting and we're often

not very good at reflecting on what's

774

:

the belief underpinning that reaction,

that strong reaction that we have.

775

:

Graham: Beliefs are hard, yeah.

776

:

Geri: Yeah.

777

:

Graham: Hard to detect, but again, they're

the ones that are, mostly holding a

778

:

group back, a team back, is the beliefs.

779

:

Geri: So this isn't the end of Graham.

780

:

I went on from here to ask him about

writing his book, and there's just

781

:

so much wisdom and insight in the

way that he talks about that both the

782

:

art and the practice of getting into

writing, that I thought it could be

783

:

really useful just to pull out into

its own short episode because we all

784

:

are writing in various different ways.

785

:

As a hook here is the question

that I started off asking Graham.

786

:

You said before about after you sold

the company and you went away on

787

:

holidays and you sat there and wrote

a book or started writing a book.

788

:

Talk us through the book, you

know, both the writing process, you

789

:

know, what lessons we might learn.

790

:

So I know that for many academics,

they have a book in them and it

791

:

can be, feel really daunting.

792

:

And also the decision to make

it free and not try to get a

793

:

publisher and make money from it.

794

:

So I invite you to keep an eye out for

episode three, where you can hear Graham

795

:

talk about his very practical tips around

writing and his decisions for how to

796

:

write an impactful, actionable book.

797

:

Insights that I think can be

useful for all forms of writing,

798

:

not just in the book genre.

799

:

You can find the summary notes, a

transcript and related links for this

800

:

podcast on www.changingacademiclife.com.

801

:

You can also subscribe to Changing

Academic Life on iTunes, and Spotify.

802

:

And I'm really hoping that we can

widen the conversation about how

803

:

we can do academia differently.

804

:

And you can contribute to this by rating

the podcast and also giving feedback.

805

:

And if something connected with

you, please consider sharing this

806

:

podcast with your colleagues.

807

:

Together we can make change happen.

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About the Podcast

Changing Academic Life
What can we do, individually and collectively, to change academic life to be more sustainable, collaborative and effective? This podcast series offers long-form conversations with academics and thought leaders who share stories and insights, as well as bite-size musings on specific topics drawing on literature and personal experience.
For more information go to https://changingacademiclife.com
Also see https://geraldinefitzpatrick.com to leave a comment.
NOTE: this is an interim site and missing transcripts for the older podcasts. Please contact me to request specific transcripts in the meanwhile.

About your host

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Geraldine Fitzpatrick

Geraldine Fitzpatrick (Geri Fitz), is an awarded Professor i.R. at TU Wien, with degrees in Informatics, and in Positive Psychology and Coaching Psychology, after a prior career as a nurse/midwife. She has International experience working in academic, research, industry and clinical settings. She is a sought-after facilitator, speaker, trainer and coach who cares about creating environments in which people can thrive, enabling individual growth, and creating collegial collaborative cultures. She works with academics and professionals at all levels, from senior academic leaders, to mid and early career researchers, to PhD students. She is also a mentor for academics and has been/is on various Faculty evaluation panels and various International Advisory Boards. An example of a course is the Academic Leadership Development Course for Informatics Europe, run in conjunction with Austen Rainer, Queens Uni Belfast. She also offers bespoke courses.