Steven Rogelberg on Transforming Academic Meetings (CAL130, S7E3)
Dr. Steven Rogelberg, an organisational psychologist from the University of North Carolina, Charlotte, draws on his extensive research on workplace meetings to share how we might make acadmic meetings better. We discuss the inefficiencies of academic meetings, with Steven suggesting academics suffer from particularly ineffective meeting practices. He offers practical advice on improving meeting productivity, particularly for Faculty meetings, such as using targeted agendas and smaller group discussions, and stresses the value of bringing scientific rigour to meeting management. He also critiques the hybrid meeting format, advocating instead for fully virtual or in-person meetings. If you are looking for more insights about evidence-based meeting practices, I can highly recommend his books 'The Surprising Science of Meetings' and 'Glad We Met: The Art and Science of One-to-One Meetings' .
Overview:
00:29 Introduction: The Meeting Dilemma
01:42 Introducing Dr. Steven Rogelberg
03:56 The Academic Meeting Problem
09:23 Common Mistakes in Leading Meetings
11:06 Strategies for Effective Meetings
13:12 Having a Meeting About Meetings
14:34 The Importance of Feedback and Audits
15:55 The Faculty Meeting
18:15 Challenges of Large and Hybrid Meetings
19:21 More Inclusive Alternatives to Large Meetings
22:20 Hybrid Meetings and Virtual Meetings
23:54 Final Takeaways and Resources
25:46 Postscript
30:16 End
Related links:
Steven's web page, LinkedIn page and online meeting resources
https://www.stevenrogelberg.com
Steven's books:
Rogelberg, S. G. (2019). The surprising science of meetings: How you can lead your team to peak performance. Oxford University Press.
Rogelberg, S. G. (2024). Glad We Met: The Art and Science of 1: 1 Meetings. Oxford University Press.
And his academic publications, for example the two we mentioned:
Rogelberg, S., Kreamer, L. M., & Gray, J. (2025). Thirty Years of Meeting Science: Lessons Learned and the Road Ahead. Annual Review of Organizational Psychology and Organizational Behavior, 13.
Rogelberg, S. G., King, E. B., & Alonso, A. (2022). How we can bring IO psychology science and evidence-based practices to the public. Industrial and Organizational Psychology, 15(2), 259-272.
And here is a template to help you reflect on your meetings.
Transcript
Welcome to Changing Academic Life.
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:I'm Geraldine Fitzpatrick, and this is
a podcast series where academics and
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:others share their stories, provide
ideas, and provoke discussions about what
4
:we can do individually and collectively
to change academic life for the better.
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:Do you love going to your faculty
meetings or departmental meetings,
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:however you might call them where you are?
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:If you're like many people,
I'm guessing probably not.
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:Meetings take up so much of our
time as academics and researchers.
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:Often they just don't feel
like a very effective or
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:valuable way of spending time.
11
:Meetings came up as a topic in our
last episode where Deborah Boehm Davis
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:talked about the many meetings she ran
as both departmental chair and Dean.
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:And she also shared how she realized that
many of the meetings just weren't the
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:most effective way to work with people,
and so she started using a new strategy.
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:Of sending out long agendas with
all of the materials that people
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:could pre-read before the meeting.
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:And then when they came to the
meeting, they'd identify together
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:what were the most pressing
issues, and then they'd focus their
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:time in discussing those issues.
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:And I thought it could be useful to
build on this then, and to hear from
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:a world leading expert about what
the science says about meetings.
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:And that expert is Dr.
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:Steven Rogelberg, an organizational
psychologist who holds the title of
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:Chancellor's, professor at University
of North Carolina, Charlotte, the
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:Distinguished National, international
and Interdisciplinary Contributions.
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:And his research is all about how
to make workplace meetings better.
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:He has over 200 research publications
on the topic and has numerous
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:awards and honors, reflecting the
quality and value of that research.
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:The most recent one, being a Raymond
Katzell Award for doing research that
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:makes a difference for people in society.
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:He's really committed to bringing
organizational psychology science, and
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:evidence-based practices to the public
so that it can make a difference.
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:In walking the talk, he's published
two books that have been listed on
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:more than two dozen best of lists.
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:One book is the 2019 book called The
Surprising Science of Meetings, how You
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:Can Lead Your Team to Peak Performance.
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:And then More Recently, in
:
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:called Glad We Met the Art and
Science of One-to-One Meetings.
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:His webpage, stevenrogelberg.com
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:is a treasure trove of useful
resources, as well as collating
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:numerous talks and interviews.
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:He's been frequently interviewed in many
major media, outlets internationally and
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:has given numerous talks and keynotes.
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:So I'm really honored that he's
been able to speak with us here
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:about what the science of meetings
might have to say to us in academia.
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:In particular, we focus
on departmental meetings.
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:So I hope you enjoy this conversation
and can find something really
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:practical to take away at the end.
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:Steven, thank you so much for joining
me, especially under the conditions
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:where you're not feeling so great.
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:Steven: Well, I am thrilled to be here
and a cold will not stop me for in
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:having this conversation with you, so
I really appreciate the invitation.
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:Geri: Thank you.
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:And I mean one of the reasons for the
invitation is your amazing research
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:on meetings and you have some really
staggering figures about the time
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:and cost of meetings and despite
that investment, how the majority
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:of people say their meetings are
unproductive and a waste of time.
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:And I'm just thinking about
academia because a lot of your
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:research has been in organizations.
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:Does academia have a
similar meeting problem?
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:Steven: Yes.
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:Absolutely bad meetings are an epidemic
across all organizational types, but
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:I think academics might be the worst.
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:I really do.
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:I think it might be the worst.
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:Worst.
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:And that's for a couple reasons.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: But one is we are horrible
at providing training to leaders.
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:The foundational skills that are
essential to their leadership, right.
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:Often we promote people,
their research records, and so
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:people don't have the skills.
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:At the same time, while it's very
well intentioned, our meetings and
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:academics are so, so, so, so, so large.
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:And we do it in the spirit of inclusion.
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:But the research actually shows that as
meeting size increases, not only does
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:ineffectiveness increase with it, but
people's feelings of inclusion decreases.
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:So we think we're being inclusive,
but it's actually the opposite.
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:People experience it as performative.
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:Yes.
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:So when you think about a lack of skills.
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:And you think about
too large of a meeting.
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:And also in academics, we
tend to meet out of habit.
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:We have a lot of meeting rituals
that we don't ever just stop and
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:go, wait, why are we doing this?
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:So those are some unique forces Yeah.
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:That we haven't,
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:That's depressingly reassuring to know,
because that totally reflects my own
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:experience of just too many meetings.
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:And yeah, the performativity of
it and the lack of skills and
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:training I've never been trained on.
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:I know.
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:Well, meetings or any
leadership skills really.
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:I think there's a little bit of a shift.
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:Steven: Isn't that fascinating?
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:Yeah.
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:It really is fascinating when you
think about an organizational type
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:that promotes people to leadership
positions, but really for all intents and
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:purposes, does not prepare them for it.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Yep.
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:It does not prepare them.
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:And what do we do?
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:I mean, we end up just
perpetuating what's been done.
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:Exactly.
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:Steven: Yeah.
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:We just keep recycling the
same dysfunctional practices.
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:So yeah, it's a big problem, but, um,
there are some academic institutions that
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:actually wanna do something about it.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: For example, I was just at
University of Tennessee and helping their
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:senior leadership, um, been at University
of New Mexico and other universities.
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:So I do think that thoughtful
deans and Provost realize that
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:this is a good thing to do.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: That bad meetings really disengage
their people and cost tremendous time
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:that could be used in so many better ways.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Which is interesting as well, given that
we're supposed to be scientists, but we
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:don't consider evidence-based practices
for around things like meetings and
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:leadership practices more generally.
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:Steven: That is so true.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: It's a blind spot that we have.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And is that, I wonder if it's hubris
as well, because we're academics,
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:you know, we know how to do things.
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:Steven: Yeah.
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:I mean, I think there's a lot
of things that humans assume
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:they're good at, that they're not.
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:Geri: Mm.
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:Steven: Let's go for a basic one.
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:Let's go to marriage
and picking a partner.
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:Clearly with 50% divorce rates
we're not that good at it.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: And yet, if you ask
people, they will say, oh no, I
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:could definitely pick a partner.
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:There's been research done on people in
prisons and they ask these individuals who
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:evaluate their ethicality and integrity,
and compared to the general population.
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:They rated themselves as
being more ethical and higher
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:integrity than the population.
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:So we generally think that
we are better than we are.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And this blind spot not only
leads us to reifying the bad
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:practices we've experienced, but
also prevents us from learning.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Right.
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:We generally assume that the
problem is everyone else, not us.
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:Right.
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:I am, I'm the academic that
absolutely can run good meetings.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: But you're probably not.
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:And it takes work.
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:I mean, I had to work really hard
on my own meetings like it, when I
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:first started as a leader, I thought
I was good, but I was actually making
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:mistakes and I had to really work on it.
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:And I had to collect feedback from
people and suggestions and it helped.
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:Geri: So what, what were some of
the key mistakes that you made, do
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:you think, when you first started
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:Steven: I privileged
harmony in my meetings.
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:Geri: Uhhuh.
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:Steven: So I didn't really
want people to be fighting.
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:I privileged harmony,
and that's a mistake.
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:We want disagreement.
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:We just want it to be
resolved constructively.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: So the phrase that I really like
is this idea of positive turbulence.
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:So a good meeting leader
creates positive turbulence.
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:Creates a safe space for
people to resolve it.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: So initially, because I
privileged harmony, I wasn't creating
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:the conditions for disagreement.
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:And then I embraced it.
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:I said, okay, no, we need disagreement.
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:We have hard things to talk about,
so let's disagree, but let's do it
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:in a really healthy, informative
way that attacks ideas, not people.
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:Geri: Mm.
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:And you talked about not learning
some of the leadership skills.
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:I imagine that in the process of making
that change, you might have needed to have
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:called some people out sometimes where it
did start to become more personal attack.
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:How might you practically engage
in that sort of conversation?
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:Or what would you actually say
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:Steven: At the start of the meeting,
if the leader of the meeting says
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:to the attendees, we have some
really important topics to discuss.
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:I know that not everyone's
gonna see it the exact same way.
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:We need you to disagree with each
other, but let's talk about keeping
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:it on the idea not the person.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: So basically, I'm
trying to normalize a particular
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:behavior, but the fact is.
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:Until I talk about it,
people don't know it.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: So often meeting leaders
don't set expectations upfront.
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:Yeah.
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:Right.
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:They don't say, Hey, you know what,
everyone, let's keep our contributions
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:to no more than 30 seconds so
we can create space for others.
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:Let's be sure to listen to each other
before we formulate our counter argument.
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:So put it out there.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:And these are really important people
skills and I like really like the
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:idea of the setting expectations.
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:Because that also gives permission
then to say, we said 30 seconds,
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:can we just give someone else space?
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:It gives you the opportunity,
the permission to intervene then.
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:Steven: Yeah, exactly.
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:Yeah.
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:Um, you know, basically, this will
sound funny, but we actually need to
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:talk more about meetings, and every
once in a while we actually need
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:to have a meeting about meetings.
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:Geri: Yes.
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:Steven: Because how could we not?
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:Yeah, like if you think about it,
you have all this discontent, all
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:this frustration, all this misery.
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:Why don't we talk about it constructively?
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:We're trained to solve problems.
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:Is this the one problem we can't solve?
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:Of course not.
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:So we need to, every once in a while,
if you're a department chair, you need
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:to look at your department meetings and
say, is this really working for folks?
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:How can I make it better?
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:And every once in a while we need to do
a meeting audit with our people to try
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:to identify meetings that aren't needed.
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:Geri: Yep.
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:Steven: So while I absolutely get
the silliness of the notion of a
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:meeting about meetings, but we have
to have a meeting about meetings.
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:Geri: No, but it's in line with
that thing of setting up the
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:expectations for the beginning.
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:You often talk about being
intentional in your meetings.
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:Exactly.
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:It's being intentional about your
meetings, not just in your meetings.
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:It's what makes sense.
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:Yeah.
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:And you
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:Steven: can really position
yourself as a hero, right.
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:So mm-hmm.
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:If I'm meeting with my department
and I say, listen, you all are
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:stretched so far and you attend a
lot of meetings that are frustrating.
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:I don't want to be part of that problem.
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:I want to be a positive
force in your world.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:Steven: So let's look at our
meetings to make them better.
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:So you really are positioning yourself.
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:Yeah.
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:As a hero.
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:And you know, faculty will
be like, oh, that's great.
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:Thank you.
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:Geri: And as you articulate so eloquently
in one of the books, in doing that
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:as well, it builds trust and probably
increases the likelihood of engagement
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:in meetings when you do have meetings
because people know that it's a meeting
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:that you've thought about and that
you are going to run in a good way.
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:That you think that there's value in
them giving their time to this meeting.
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:Steven: You are completely right.
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:Geri: What would be your advice
to a department chair then?
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:So there's the have a meeting
about meetings, having done an
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:audit and gathering feedback.
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:You talked about that as well.
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:Steven: So I would, I would
just start with the feedback.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: I would ask people, I would
just do a very quick little survey.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: Asking people.
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:To evaluate like department
meetings, what's going well, not
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:so well, and ideas for improvement.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: I would also ask them what
meetings are they regularly attending
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:that perhaps aren't needed that could
be improved, and what are their ideas?
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Steven: So basically the, you know,
meetings are shared experiences.
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:So therefore we want to engage
the collective in solving it.
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:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Yeah.
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:Steven: And the good
news is by doing that.
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:You're basically changing
the norms in that department.
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:So when, let's say program directors have
meetings right now, they're on notice.
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:Geri: Yes.
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:Yes.
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:Steven: So you can start cascading
healthy and effective process.
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:Geri: Yes.
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:Yes.
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:That's the, that's part of
the whole setting the culture.
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:And you've just had a paper that you've
published just in July that was reviewing
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:30 years of research on meetings.
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:Yeah.
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:And that reflects some of the
recommendations you have for the
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:organizational level about the audit
and doing all of this sort of work.
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:Steven: Yes.
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:Geri: So in, in the work that you've
done with other universities, has
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:it often been talking about the
faculty level type meeting, the
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:department level meeting and all?
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:Steven: All the above.
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:Yeah.
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:Geri: All.
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:Okay.
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:Steven: Yeah.
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:You know, it's very interesting when you
think about organizational expenses.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: And we often think IT
is probably our most expensive
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:thing that we do as an entity.
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:But in most organizations, meetings are
actually the most expensive thing by far.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: You know, the time by salaries,
not to mention opportunity costs.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: And it,
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:we manage that budget.
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:We make sure it's working for us.
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:Geri: Mm.
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:Steven: But when it comes
to meetings, we don't,
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:Geri: Nope.
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:Steven: So this is an
opportunity for universities,
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:right, to say, you know what?
317
:Let's stop wasting our people's
time and causing frustration.
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:Geri: And it's probably, I'm just thinking
about the research that's showing that
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:academics have a higher rate of burnout
and stress than the general population.
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:And all of the research is showing
that that's increasing as well.
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:And that for all sorts of reasons
with the managerial culture and
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:performance measures and so on.
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:Yeah.
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:But you know, like instead of giving
a yoga program or a mindfulness
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:program for people to attend,
this would be far more effective.
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:In respecting people's time.
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:It's a way of showing that respect for
people's time and helping them navigate.
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:Steven: I really like that.
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:Yeah, I like that.
330
:A lots and trade-offs.
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:You know, we, we tell our colleagues,
you need to do more with less.
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:They're going to shoot, they're
going to be pretty angry.
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:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: But if we say, yeah, here are
some things that we have to work on.
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:Yeah.
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:But let's make some cuts elsewhere.
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:Right?
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:By removing some wasted meetings.
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:So.
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:Just piling on people is not
where people are at right now,
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:especially in universities in the us.
342
:Geri: Mm-hmm.
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:Yeah.
344
:Steven: And so yeah, we need to hear
messages of support, less wasted work.
345
:Those are really critical.
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:It's, it's critical for all universities.
347
:It's just that we have some
unique challenges right now.
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:Geri: You do have some unique challenges.
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:I'm just trying to think about the
tension between the performativity
350
:of large faculty meetings and the
amount of time that's wasted if
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:you've got your 50, 60, whatever, a
hundred faculty that're supposed to be
352
:sitting in a room or hybrid as we're
increasingly doing now at our place.
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:And, the notion of inclusion.
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:And some of the research that talks
about academics wanting to have a voice.
355
:And they like having a voice as we know.
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:That thing then about how do you navigate
that tension of making everyone feel
357
:like they can have a say or hear about
what's going on, but use their time well.
358
:What would be some of the top tricks
that a departmental chair or meeting
359
:facilitator could do with a large meeting?
360
:Steven: The large meetings are
obviously very hard and tricky.
361
:And typically in academics
people are posturing.
362
:And there's not really
engagement on ideas.
363
:Basically everyone's just positioning
their comment that they want to make.
364
:So I think we have to think
differently about the process.
365
:Geri: Mm-hmm.
366
:Steven: We need to do more, um, maybe
sequential, smaller group meetings, right?
367
:So if a chair wants to, let's say, settle
on this curriculum issue, what they
368
:could do is invite everyone to have input
via a survey or some document, right?
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:So now everyone's voice.
370
:Then there's a committee of, let's
say, of six people who, you know, kind
371
:of collect that, put it all together.
372
:And then, you know, perhaps they can
engage in a process for narrowing down
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:the types of op options by having voting.
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:But that's another way of including
all voices, and you can keep sharing
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:the findings for each one of these,
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:you know, then you could potentially
create, another small group that refines
377
:the ideas and then it's sent back out
to people who then approve the refining.
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:So basically what we're doing is, we're
not adding more time to people's schedule,
379
:we're just making the time more productive
by breaking it up and spreading it out.
380
:But the process I just shared, which is
just off the cuff by the way, it's real.
381
:Right?
382
:It's inclusive.
383
:It actually uses people's voices.
384
:Yeah.
385
:And accommodates what they learn.
386
:It's an iterative process.
387
:So basically this thought of putting 25,
30 people in a room and saying, yeah,
388
:let's come up with a group decision.
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:That's rubbish.
390
:Not possible.
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:But we can do these other
types of approaches, right?
392
:Soliciting input, small groups, going
back out, having people vote, rank
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:order, small group refining like that
is a way of truly engaging with people.
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:Geri: And it sounds like it would
encourage much more thoughtful
395
:contributions and input and
be more inclusive for people.
396
:So I don't know about your, department
or faculty, but we have many of us
397
:have very multicultural areas and people
with different languages, uh, can often
398
:find it difficult to express themselves.
399
:Especially where you have a lot of the
very active people who like to talk a lot.
400
:Yeah.
401
:And so this provides.
402
:Both the opportunity for more thoughtful
input as well as getting more voices.
403
:Steven: Exactly.
404
:Yeah, absolutely.
405
:You know, when we ask people to respond
to some worry via email or form Right.
406
:That's starting to privilege people
who write better than they speak.
407
:Geri: Mm.
408
:Yeah.
409
:Steven: And we definitely
have those people in the cast.
410
:Yes.
411
:Geri: Yep.
412
:Steven: So, you know, let's make sure
that we design an eclectic experience
413
:so that everyone is privileged.
414
:And disadvantaged at various times.
415
:Mm.
416
:The bottom line though is that
no one should think that they can
417
:truly generate consensus once a
meeting goes beyond 20 people.
418
:It's just not, it's not real.
419
:It's.
420
:Geri: No, it's a tick
in the box, isn't it?
421
:That says, I've consulted everyone.
422
:Exactly.
423
:Does your research say anything
about hybrid and, yes.
424
:Yeah.
425
:Steven: Yes.
426
:So sadly, hybrid are the worst.
427
:Those people who are attending remote
or just unplugged their multitasking.
428
:They don't feel included.
429
:Geri: I have to just
put my hand up to that.
430
:Steven: Um, so yeah, they're
just there, but not there at all.
431
:The best practice is not a hybrid meeting,
but either a fully virtual meeting Yeah.
432
:Or for a fully in person meeting.
433
:Geri: Yeah.
434
:Yeah.
435
:Steven: And I think it's important
to recognize virtual meetings
436
:actually have more promise than
even face-to-face meetings.
437
:Geri: Oh, okay.
438
:Steven: Right.
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:So virtual meetings create
a more democratic setup.
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:Everyone's pictures on equal playing,
there's no head of table effects.
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:Oh.
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:The use of the chat function
allows for more voices to emerge.
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:People who are more comfortable
writing can have their voice,
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:greater integration of voting.
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:There's a lot of inherent positives
associated with virtual meetings.
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:I'm not saying you
shouldn't have face-to-face
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:Geri: No.
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:Steven: But I'm saying virtual meetings.
449
:Geri: Yeah.
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:Steven: Stock up.
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:Geri: And that's part of the
intentionality then, isn't it?
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:About what, um, medium is going to be best
for the sort of topics we want to have.
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:Because you can also do the
breakout groups in so you can get
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:lots of small discussions as well.
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:Steven: Excellent.
456
:Geri: Just in wrapping up, is
there's some final takeaway that you
457
:would wanna leave us with about, you
know, if there's one thing that people
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:could do better, what would it be?
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:Us people in Yes.
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:Academia for our colleagues.
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:Steven: Yes.
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:So, you know, my books
have a lot of ideas.
463
:Right.
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:And
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:Geri: Lots.
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:Steven: I'll share one of the ones that I
think is particularly good for academics.
467
:So when we look at agendas,
most agendas are structured as
468
:a set of topics to be discussed.
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:What I wannt o encourage leaders
to do is to frame their agendas as
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:a set of questions to be answered.
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:By framing your agenda as questions,
now you have to really stop and
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:think, why are we having this meeting?
473
:It's to answer these questions.
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:By framing your agenda as
questions, you have a much better
475
:idea of who needs to be there.
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:They're relevant to the questions
477
:By framing your agenda as questions,
you actually know if the meeting
478
:has been successful or not.
479
:The questions have been answered.
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:And by framing your agenda as
questions, it creates an engaging
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:challenge that draws them in just
like we see with our students.
482
:Hmm.
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:And finally, if you can't think
of any questions, it likely
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:means you don't need, you don't
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:Geri: need a meeting
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:Steven: and that might be a great
way of wrapping up our call.
487
:Geri: That sounds great.
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:Because I did read something that
said people's favorite meetings
489
:were the meetings that got canceled.
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:Steven: Yeah.
491
:That's sad but true.
492
:Geri: Yeah.
493
:So Steven, thank you so much for
your time and for your generosity
494
:and all the resources that you share.
495
:I'll point people to those resources
and to your books 'cause you have
496
:lots of tools, templates, checklists.
497
:Yep.
498
:Yep.
499
:So thank you very much.
500
:Steven: My pleasure.
501
:My pleasure.
502
:Thank you so much.
503
:Geri: What a great call to action
to stop and reflect on what meetings
504
:we have if we need to have them,
and how to make them better.
505
:So in terms of being more intentional
about meetings, we can take Steven's
506
:last questions and reframe them
as: why are we having this meeting?
507
:Who needs to be there?
508
:How will they engage?
509
:And how will I know if the
meeting has been successful?
510
:And he talked about the value of framing
an agenda as questions because they can be
511
:the anchor points for how you answer those
questions around your intentional meeting.
512
:We never got to discuss it, but I
can also share what Steven's book
513
:would say about Deborah's strategy of
sending out the reading beforehand.
514
:His evidence-based practice
recommendations is about providing
515
:an agenda ahead of time that includes
additional information such as the
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:goals for the meeting and the purpose
of each person's attendance there.
517
:And he does say about providing materials,
preparatory materials in advance of
518
:the meeting, like sending any necessary
reading or introduction materials.
519
:But his proposal is to limit the
amount of materials where possible.
520
:And he also makes mention in his book
on some of the practices at Amazon, for
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:example, about time for silent reading.
522
:So if people, or on the assumption that
people don't have time to read beforehand,
523
:providing explicit time at the beginning
of the meeting for that silent reading.
524
:So I'm really grateful to Steven
for all that he shared here.
525
:I also just want to say that Steven seems
like an amazing human being, that he
526
:still did this call with me despite being
under the weather and was so present.
527
:I also want to just recognize him for
how amazingly responsive and respectful
528
:he's been in all his communications
with me in setting up this call.
529
:And I also think he's a bit of a
role model in how to translate our
530
:research so that it can be more
accessible to the public as he's
531
:done with his meetings research.
532
:And for that reason, I'm really
happy to strongly recommend his book,
533
:the Surprising Science of Meetings.
534
:It's a really practical book, and
what we talked about here is just a
535
:tiny flavor of what he offers there.
536
:The book also includes lots of
tools and checklists to support
537
:putting the ideas into action.
538
:I'll put the relevant links on the
episode webpage, for example, to
539
:his research papers, including the
journal paper on bringing science
540
:to the public and his recent journal
paper, 30 years of meeting science
541
:lessons learned and the road ahead.
542
:I'll also provide a PDF template that
you can download that I constructed
543
:based on having read his book.
544
:So it may be useful for you if you do
want to conduct your own meeting audit.
545
:And I'd leave you with a final
question then to think about how might
546
:you be more intentional about the
meetings you run if you are a leader.
547
:Or a meeting facilitator.
548
:And what can you do if you are a
meeting participant to contribute to
549
:making your meetings better as well?
550
:You can find the summary notes, a
transcript and related links for this
551
:podcast on www.changingacademiclife.com.
552
:You can also subscribe to Changing
Academic Life on iTunes, Spotify.
553
:And I'm really hoping that we can
widen the conversation about how
554
:we can do academia differently.
555
:And you can contribute to this by rating
the podcast and also giving feedback.
556
:And if something connected with
you, please consider sharing this
557
:podcast with your colleagues.
558
:Together we can make change happen.
